Thread: Coticule and what i think

I agree on that my point was shaving of blue with slurry was sharper than yellow with slurry i have shaved of blue many of time only after setting bevel on dmt then 4k n 8k n bbw light slurry and shave is fine no probs because blade was was sharp enough of the 8k i have shaved at each stage and if your bevel is set well enough you could shave of dmt may be a little rough but i have tryed it and your razor will shave not as smooth and not as much glide. I've just took a shave ready blade and honed once again on yeelow light milky slurry for 100 laps and result was passed hanging hair test shaved cheek area good but tash area and chin not good alot of resistants so once again slurry has droped level of keeness bart is right on he finds the same with slurry. i no if i now drop back to 4k and then 8k coti with water my razor will be back to normal.

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

People seem to get irritated when the Escher is brought up following the coticule. Maybe because of they tend to be more expensive and not readily available ? Whatever, IME the edge will get sharper and retain the smoothness with a yellow/green or a blue/green Escher. With the high grit synthetics you can get sharper but I'm not sure if the smoothness remains at the same level. One of these days I have to bite the bullet and get the "right" Nakayama and see what all the fuss is about.

Me too Jimmy, I hear it so much, but haven't pulled the trigger yet. As far as Coticules go, It depends on what condition the razor is in, and what type of Coticule is it, They are different. Can you shave off them, Yes, can you do better, Absolutely.
I have a large collecton of Coti's, While they will always hold a place in my heart, There is better out there. I still use mine, but maybe in the middle. I don't shave off a coti anymore. You can shave off a Naniwa 12k though, try it...And as Utopian said, if a razor is shave ready, as mine are. YOu can keep them in check with a Barber hone, or small coticule bout for ever...

Question???
Since there seems to be some question about the sharpness level attainable with a Coticule (just going by what I am reading here) would it not make perfect sense to take a razor to sharp levels by using a synthetic 1k and 4k then switch to a Coticule with water to get the Smooth you guys seem to think you can only attain on natural stones????

So the hone set up would be
1k = bevel set
4k = sharpen
Coticule = polish

Would this not work???? or am I missing the objective here, of it doesn't count if you use other stones??? Sorta what I am asking, is this a quest to use just one stone, or is this a quest to get a great edge????

I think I'll just try it myself, I have a Beau Brummel that needs honing (I think the Wife might have "used" it for opening a box) and I know the razor really well.....

Originally Posted by gssixgun

am I missing the objective here, of it doesn't count if you use other stones??? Sorta what I am asking, is this a quest to use just one stone, or is this a quest to get a great edge????

I have been under the impression that this is not a quest to get a great edge nearly as much as it is to get a working edge with just one stone

Maybe I have been wrong

I was under the impression that the objectives were actually two fold - that you can shave off of it, and, further, that it COULD be the only stone you need (if you like the shaving edge it offers). I think all would agree that maybe it's not the most efficient, but it's also not so ridiculously inefficient that it's impractical to use as your only stone, from bevel setting through final edge. IMHO, it's impractical for a honemeister to use as their only stone, but for average joe who hones a razor a week if that, he can afford an extra couple hundred strokes or so, and some fiddling time, if needed.

The problem, as I understand it, and maybe I'm grossly misunderstanding what I've been reading lately on the subject and if so please forgive me, is that some people feel that it's a very overrated stone. It's not the fastest or cheapest stone in it's grit ranges, so why bother? I think this point of view comes from the fact that the coticule has been getting this rep lately as almost a magic stone.. that it can "do it all" and the shaves off of it are great. Everyone (newbies in particular) sees this and they instantly want a coticule without considering if there might be some other, more efficient, if not better, hones that might suit them just as well at a similar price point. I think the people in the second camp define better primarily with efficiency and reliability/consistency (how long / how many strokes it takes to complete each honing stage, and how repeatable the results are on different razors).

Anyway, that's my impression of the two sides of it, from what I can tell.

Ok so let me see if I have this right??? I can use any stone I want, just so long as it is one stone, from bevel to polish, and then shave, damaged razors are not included??? and I get a slurry stone????

That is the quest???

I've tried this on 9 razors so far. At first I thought that this worked perfectly, but I was only trying "singing" style razors which all honed up very nice and sharp. Then I moved to W&B wedges and had no luck or I could see that it would take forever so I honed them with Nortons and c12k and got equal results to the Coticule.

If I only had my Henckels or Bokers, 1 Coticule would be enough, with wedges I need more and synthetics seem to work better on them. ymmv

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Ok so let me see if I have this right??? I can use any stone I want, just so long as it is one stone, from bevel to polish, and then shave, damaged razors are not included??? and I get a slurry stone????

That is the quest???

I wouldn't call it a quest, but yeah, with the one coticule honing idea, it was that you could use the single stone, with a slurry stone, to achieve an acceptable shaving edge. I guess you could call it a challenge or a quest or even a parlor trick or what have you, but I think all it was ever meant to be was another tool in the honing toolbox, it's still up to the honer to decide which tool to use

Serious damage to razors (chips) don't count IMHO, and I don't think were ever meant to. Maybe you could hone out chips on the coticule with slurry, but IMO it's outside the realm of practicality.

I am willing to try that.....

Originally Posted by gssixgun

I am willing to try that.....

I'd love to hear your take on it. Take a look at Bart's suggested method if you haven't already to see how he suggests going about the whole thing. I'm sure you don't need any honing pointers, but it does give the run down on what to expect and how he went about it.