Thread: Re Examining my honing

I think we all re-examine our honing from time to time. Especially when we run into those stubborn edges that seem to resist all of our best efforts. I haven't honed for other people save for two individuals that live near me.

One said that it was the sharpest razor that he had ever shaved with and that made me feel really good. He hones his own and I haven't honed any others for him.

Another was a new guy and when I found out he lived near enough I offered to hone a razor for him. That ended up being four of them and I didn't get any feedback on them.

I was worried about whether he got a good shave out of them and I inquired and he said that they were fine. So I mostly go by what my own shaves are like.

If I honed for someone else and they didn't find the edge acceptable it would bother me. As far as telling someone that their honing didn't suit me I probably wouldn't. I wouldn't want bum them out. Not saying that is 'right' but that is just me.

Originally Posted by Slartibartfast

I have been selling blades as "Not shave ready" and soliciting feedback from the buyers lately.

I decided to do that myself. So, I edited my ads to reflect that.

Originally Posted by Pyment

I decided to do that myself. So, I edited my ads to reflect that.

I have yet to sell any. If I did I would specify that it was shave ready for me. YMMV and then solicit the feedback with my fingers crossed.

Most of what I have sold are eBay razors that I have cleaned up, honed to my satisfaction, shaved with a while, then sold.

Originally Posted by IsaacRN

Heres my story...

I have been learning how to hone and thought that I was doing very well. Then something happened. I sold one of my razors and heard back from the buyer saying the razor was far from sharp. This was a razor i had honed and thought it to be sharp. It wasnt really in my rotation, so I didnt dull it out with use.

That might say as much about the buyer's shaving technique as about your honing skills. If you want your honing assessed, the only viable way is to send a razor to an established shaver, preferably one that has extended honing experience.

Originally Posted by IsaacRN

I will tell you that for whatever reason i was never able to shave off the 4k. I was usually able to shave arm hairs and pass HHT's after stropping. (i know the HHT isnt a good marker). After reading a post today, It kinda hit me that maybe i wasnt doing enough passes to get where i needed to be.

The general approach on SRP is to make the razor as keen as possible on the lower and medium grits (for razors, I'm calling 1K low and 4K medium) and next just polish the scratches with a minimal amount of work on a finer hone.
While that approach definitely works very well, and is probably the quickest way to produce a good edge, it's not my personal cup of tea. The dreaded "overhoning" issue, which I believe is a collective and somewhat ambiguous term for several possible edge problems, is one of the risks of that method. Aiming for maximum sharpness on rapid (and consequently aggressive) hones, can cause instability of the very edge. Depending on the hone, the applied pressure, the number of laps, the steel of the razor, these issues can take a weird turn during final polishing.
Often the polishing hone that revealed the condition is blamed for the problem.

Personally, I take a more "sneaky" approach to honing, progressing more gradually to the desired edge keenness. This means that I do far more laps on the finer hones than what you'll mostly read here on the forums. It takes more time, and it doesn't discharge you of hitting an certain target zone during each honing stage, but it leaves smooth very keen edges, and I never found any adverse effects.
The approach you described in your post, resembles a lot what I do if I take the Naniwa (chosera) route, although I don't count laps.

Originally Posted by IsaacRN

Today I took 4 razors that I thought were sub par and re established a bevel using circular motions of 20 on each side...and repeated until the bevel was established on a 1k Norton. After that I started on the 4k Shapton starting at 60 passes. I attempted to shave arm hairs after each 60 and found that the norm was 120-180 strokes. After that I went to the 8k and did about 100-140 strokes...followed by the 16k giving it a good 60-100 strokes. I followed that up with 40 passes on a green pasted strop. Then went 30 compressed wool, 40 linen and 40 leather.

After the 16K, I really recommend just stropping and a shave test. This edge should shave completely effortlessly. Let's say that 95% of the edge quality should be there. Perhaps even 100%, because the last 5% is all about personal preference. Some like the brute force of a 0.25 micron diamond spray. Some like the feel of CrO. It's final tailoring, but I wouldn't recommend it for saving a failed honing attempt.

Originally Posted by IsaacRN

My only gripe was the toe and heel on some of the blades. I used my Radioshack magnifier and saw a well polished edge up until the very ends. I suppose ill be practicing on those. I had a Livi that gave me a hell of a time. The true test will be a shave.

Is it possible that those razors have a slightly smiling curve at their tip and toe? You might want to catch up on a few honing stroke variations to deal with that. Strokes for honing a razor - Straight Razor Place Wiki

Originally Posted by IsaacRN

I just found it a kicker that what I thought was sharp, someone else thought was really dull. If only there was a way to have a benchmark to see how one was doing.

The only real benchmark should be your own shaving experience. Raw sharpness is not the only attribute of a straight razor's edge.

Best regards,
Bart.

I've honed razors for some guys and had them tell me that they thought my honing wasn't very good. I've honed razors for some guys and they called back 6 months later and said they thought the edge was dulling a little . . .
I've had guys tell me that I had improved their edges way beyond what they originally bought as shave ready.
I've honed razors up on 8K and had guys disbelieve that the edge I produced was actually produced on 8K.

In the end, I do not believe there is such a thing as shave ready honing, only "strop ready" honing.

If I could do one thing tomorrow in the world of straight razordom, it would be to nuke the term "shave-ready".

If you truely want to check your honing then do just that....

Trust me here this will enlighten you to how good you think you can hone...

Shave at 4k

Shave at 8k

and shave at 16k

No STROPPING at all

For those that don't use Shaptons shave at the stone or point after the bevel was set

and again on the next stone

and again on the finisher

trust me here you are going to learn quite a bit..

Originally Posted by hi_bud_gl

The very important fact is Isaac you are willing to learn....

if you have sharpen your blade right( progression untill 16k) after that strokes you should have nothing left from your edge. I mean that edge should be destroyed. This didn't happen to you . That means when you move to 16 k your blade wasnt ready for it (too early move from one grit to another).
IN 16k i will never ever do more then 10 strokes(after 10 edge start to brake down).

Thats useful. I'd read that you have to be careful with those Shaptons, but I guess I'd been using too many strokes on the 16k, it seemed like my edges were coming off of them duller then when they went on.

Originally Posted by Bart

That might say as much about the buyer's shaving technique as about your honing skills. If you want your honing assessed, the only viable way is to send a razor to an established shaver, preferably one that has extended honing experience.


The general approach on SRP is to make the razor as keen as possible on the lower and medium grits (for razors, I'm calling 1K low and 4K medium) and next just polish the scratches with a minimal amount of work on a finer hone.
While that approach definitely works very well, and is probably the quickest way to produce a good edge, it's not my personal cup of tea. The dreaded "overhoning" issue, which I believe is a collective and somewhat ambiguous term for several possible edge problems, is one of the risks of that method. Aiming for maximum sharpness on rapid (and consequently aggressive) hones, can cause instability of the very edge. Depending on the hone, the applied pressure, the number of laps, the steel of the razor, these issues can take a weird turn during final polishing.
Often the polishing hone that revealed the condition is blamed for the problem.

Personally, I take a more "sneaky" approach to honing, progressing more gradually to the desired edge keenness. This means that I do far more laps on the finer hones than what you'll mostly read here on the forums. It takes more time, and it doesn't discharge you of hitting an certain target zone during each honing stage, but it leaves smooth very keen edges, and I never found any adverse effects.
The approach you described in your post, resembles a lot what I do if I take the Naniwa (chosera) route, although I don't count laps.


After the 16K, I really recommend just stropping and a shave test. This edge should shave completely effortlessly. Let's say that 95% of the edge quality should be there. Perhaps even 100%, because the last 5% is all about personal preference. Some like the brute force of a 0.25 micron diamond spray. Some like the feel of CrO. It's final tailoring, but I wouldn't recommend it for saving a failed honing attempt.


Is it possible that those razors have a slightly smiling curve at their tip and toe? You might want to catch up on a few honing stroke variations to deal with that. Strokes for honing a razor - Straight Razor Place Wiki



The only real benchmark should be your own shaving experience. Raw sharpness is not the only attribute of a straight razor's edge.

Best regards,
Bart.

Thanks man. I have been having a weird turn. It could be, sounds pretty good, as I was hunting for a max keeness on a 4. I thought I heard some scratchy strokes on my finisher too, just never got the look and feel i was used to. Funny thing i jointed and did nearly the same thing. After reading this i have redone it again with some effort to counteract that over reaching. soon to see what happened

read this thread also

http://straightrazorpalace.com/advan...tml#post434709