Thread: Re Examining my honing

Heres my story...

I have been learning how to hone and thought that I was doing very well. Then something happened. I sold one of my razors and heard back from the buyer saying the razor was far from sharp. This was a razor i had honed and thought it to be sharp. It wasnt really in my rotation, so I didnt dull it out with use.

Now I have been traveling due to work so havent had any of my hones with me for the past 8 months. I just returned home and started reading again. It bugged me that someone thought my razor was sub par in honing.

I will tell you that for whatever reason i was never able to shave off the 4k. I was usually able to shave arm hairs and pass HHT's after stropping. (i know the HHT isnt a good marker). After reading a post today, It kinda hit me that maybe i wasnt doing enough passes to get where i needed to be.

Today I took 4 razors that I thought were sub par and re established a bevel using circular motions of 20 on each side...and repeated until the bevel was established on a 1k Norton. After that I started on the 4k Shapton starting at 60 passes. I attempted to shave arm hairs after each 60 and found that the norm was 120-180 strokes. After that I went to the 8k and did about 100-140 strokes...followed by the 16k giving it a good 60-100 strokes. I followed that up with 40 passes on a green pasted strop. Then went 30 compressed wool, 40 linen and 40 leather.

My only gripe was the toe and heel on some of the blades. I used my Radioshack magnifier and saw a well polished edge up until the very ends. I suppose ill be practicing on those. I had a Livi that gave me a hell of a time. The true test will be a shave.

I just found it a kicker that what I thought was sharp, someone else thought was really dull. If only there was a way to have a benchmark to see how one was doing.

Well thats my story and thank you for reading it. Any comments or critiques would be welcomed.

Isaac

you might try the pyramid method outlined in the wiki. what you are describing seems like alot of honing to me. once your bevel is set, i dont think it should be taking that many strokes to get to sharp. i'm still pretty new, but anyway i hope that helps.

Originally Posted by IsaacRN

.followed by the 16k giving it a good 60-100 strokes.



Isaac

The very important fact is Isaac you are willing to learn. You find out you have problem and didn't give up . Now be patient and i assure you will get there.
So far i would say (don't accept this as negative and discouraging ) you do have problem somewhere .
1 i notice is above.
16 shapton and you made 60-100 strokes.
if you have sharpen your blade right( progression untill 16k) after that strokes you should have nothing left from your edge. I mean that edge should be destroyed. This didn't happen to you . That means when you move to 16 k your blade wasnt ready for it (too early move from one grit to another).
IN 16k i will never ever do more then 10 strokes(after 10 edge start to brake down).
Now what i can advise to you.
1 st have a loop(microscope) which you could see 30x -100x
Please first set the bevel as you said on 1k.
Move to 4k and stay until it will pop up the arm hairs( arm hairs are different etc but at least get the result which you can shave your arm hair very easy)
then move to 8 k. stay on it until you will see as soon as it touches the hair it is gone not jump but falls down.(if hair jumps blade is still dull)
Lastly 16k as i said no more then 10 stroke i go head say 5-8 full strokes . then chro2 and strop test blade.
i hope this will help.
any questions please do ask.

Hi Issac, here is an excerpt from the 1961 barber manual in the SRP Wiki that has been very helpful to me. They specifically address the issue of sharpening the point and heel and avoiding a frown.

As bkvisler mentioned the pyramid method is very effective IME. Lynn just posted a great writeup on it the other day. You can find it here along with some other stuff Lynn has pointed out about honing. Reading all of this has helped me a lot in my honing.

The fact that Lynn could use any method yet sticks with the pyramids after thousands of razors is a high recommendation for the method IMO and IME. It really works for me. Try it you'll like it.

Thank you Jimmy. I just always found difficulty with the pyramids for whatever reason. I just took a chip out of a TI I had and give it a go according to Bud.

The funny this is...the 4k...cut hair...the 8k popped hairs...and it was still cutting after 60 passes on the 16k. But i trust the judgement of senior members. The TI only received 10 strokes on the 16K.

Wish I could shave tomorrow...im still without stubble after my shave this morning

Hello IsaacRN,

It is good to see you posting again.

FWIW I have stopped trying to hone the edge til it is perfect. I hone until the razor shaves ME! very well. I no longer expect my edges to suit everyone because that is not possible. There will be guys whose skin is very different from mine or whose whiskers are very dense or tough. Mine are simply very hard and my skin is sensitive due to medications.
I think if you try to satisfy everyone you will end up very frustrated.

Your honing should have led to a very overhoned edge. I suspect that what you are doing is honing to fast and not watching the water flow in front of the blade. I suspect that you are lifting the edge off the hone or almost off the hone.
My suggestion is to slow down the speed of the stroke to 1 second in each direction and watch the water flow from the heel to the toe of the razors edge.

Just my $.02,

I dont necessarily know that they are overhoned, because when i was done they were wiping hairs off my arm. I know the true test will be shaving with them. I do have to agree with you though. I found that slowing my stroke down..to 1-2 seconds was actually more beneficial. Like you said..i was able to see the water better..and feel that i was getting more accompished with the slower stroke.

Its actually nice to see the bevel go from 1k to 8k..with a loupe/magnifier. To watch the progression of the polishing.

The only hone I can remember overhoning on was the Norton 4k/8k. And if you're gonna be finishing with chrome oxide or some other paste then I wouldn't worry about overhoning on the stones.

I am re-re-examining my honing as well.

I worry that there is someone out there that is dissatisfied with the honing on one of my razors and not saying anything. Personally, I would enjoy any criticism for blades I have sold as shave ready. It can only help me. This is especially rue as I am trying to improve how I hone with every razor. If something isn't working, the feedback would be appreciated.

I have been selling blades as "Not shave ready" and soliciting feedback from the buyers lately.