Thread: Some thoughts on "Learning to Hone"

Originally Posted by FTG

after reading all the advice and the how-tos, it's nice that honing a blade to shave ready really can come true!!!

All the best,
Michael.

Cool that it shaves good for you and you got it there yourself. The HHT is a neat thing to get but the shave is the real test.

Originally Posted by FTG

Set the bevel - hone lightly on 1k until it passes Thumbnail test (TNT)
(TNT - where blade starts to dig into nail when dragged over it)

Don't do anything else until you've set the bevel!!
Don't do anything else until you've set the bevel!!
Don't do anything else until you've set the bevel!!

+1 to this as well.

Setting the bevel is ABSOLUTELY key to sharpening a razor. I found out pretty quick that sometimes setting the bevel properly can take a lot longer than you think, especially on an ebay razor, so PATIENCE is key

i found that i couldnt learn much from good ebay razors as they instantly became vintage qualety to me
so i just got 2 gd models 2 each
the best about that is its never gonna be an old jevel i ruin and if i really mess up i already got the same razor lying ready for abuse
the high heel didnt bother me wery much as i used a fairly coarse dmt for preliminary work
actually the smile was more of a challenge then the heel work

hmm anyone got a tip for dealing with the wide shoulders on the 66?

oh i have a couple of shave ready razors to set the standard and im not there yet but getting pretty close

A reply to my reply, lol by "crap razor" I don't mean an E bay special like a pakastani or sweeny todd you know what i talking about , what I mean by crap razor is this... a razor that doesn't cost much , a razor that may have some rust or busted scales or its been modified , like an antique store find , still a good quality razor and will take an edge , This my friends is the very best way hands down , I don't think anyone out there wants to ruin a new blade because they didn't know how to hone ...

I just read this entire thread and found it so helpful, I decided to give it a "bump" so that newcomers can sample the splendid advice here. I've developed a little collection of razors to use for learning to hone, some for learning to do more involved restoration. I would not call them "crap" razors, but the folks who sold them apparently thought they were. The all cost less than $20. These include brands like Solingen, Wostenholm, Boker, Dubl Duck, and Geneva Cutlery. They all have varying degrees of need for loving care ranging from a good cleaning and honing to new scales to a complete disassembly, blade clean and polish, re-scale, etc.

I just keep these now in a box in my shop and as my skills increase, I have a set of razors that I know will likely fix up just fine when my skills are ready.

How timely that this thread got bumped now. I've been working on my own little FAQ, and one I took a stab at was "What's the best way to learn to hone?" Here's what I've written so far:

In my opinion, it is best to learn how to hone from the end to the beginning. The finishing/touchup stage is the easiest to learn, and bevel setting is the most difficult.

-Touchups and finishing: Touching up a razor is something that every straight shaver should learn how to do, because, sooner or later, all razors will dull as a result of normal use. When a razor begins to pull, choose your finishing/touchup hone, and do 10 to 15 passes, then strop and shave. If you are happy with how the razor shaves, you were successful and you are finished. If you are not happy with how the razor shaves, try 10 to 15 more passes, then strop and shave. Repeat as necessary.

If you cannot get your razor to shave as you would like using the above method, it may be time to drop down one hone in the progression of stones. The next step would be to try a hone in the 8k range. On the 8k hone, do 10 to 15 passes. Then do 10 to 15 passes on your finisher. Then strop and shave. Again, repeat as necessary. Unless you have damaged your razor in some way, coarser hones should not be necessary.

Alternately, you can learn to finish a razor with the help of an experienced honer. If you send your razors out to be honed or buy shave ready razors, try asking for a razor that has only been brought up to the 8k level. When the razor arrives, strop and shave. Note how the razor feels when you shave. Before your next shave, try 10 to 15 passes on your finishing hone, then strop and shave. Note the differences in how the razor shaves. If you are satisfied, you are done. If not, try 10 to 15 passes on your finisher, strop and shave. Repeat as necessary.

-Sharpening and polishing: Once you are satisfied that you can touchup and finish a razor, the next easiest step is to learn to do the mid range sharpening and polishing. Here, it is easiest to have the help of an experienced honer, because you will want to have razors available which have their bevel set but have not been honed beyond that point. Most people do not sell razors that only have their bevels set, and most people do not offer just bevel setting services; but don’t be afraid to ask. Personally, I think it is important to learn on razors that already have their bevels set.

After a bevel is set, the first stage is to use a hone in the 3k to 5k range, and here again, the process will involve a bit of trial and error BEFORE you do anything else, try shaving some arm hairs and try a thumbpad test on the razor. These tests will give you a baseline so you’ll know where you are starting. These tests will also give you a frame of reference when you are ready to learn to set bevels on your own.

Once you have done an armhair test and a thumbpad test, it’s time to start honing. Do 15 to 20 passes on your 3-5k hone, then repeat the armhair test. You should notice an improvement in how easily the hair is cut – it should require less pressure against your skin and there should be less resistance when you cut. Do 15 to 20 passes on your hone again, and repeat the arm hair test. If there is improvement again, repeat the 15 to 20 passes and test. Once you no longer have any improvement, stop. At this point, you will have gotten the most you can out of your hone. Do the armhair test again, and try to remember what it looks, feels, and sounds like; do the thumbpad test, and try to remember what it feels like. The results from these tests will serve as benchmarks for the future, and will reduce the amount of trial and error you need to do next time.

Now, it is time to move up to the next hone, which would be in the 8k range. On your 8k hone, do 10 to 15 strokes, and then try an arm hair test. Do 10 to 15 strokes again, and try the armhair test again. As on the 3-5k hone, keep repeating this process until you are not getting any further improvements. You should be looking for the razor to cut with minimal pressure against your skin and minimal resistance. The razor should make minimal noise when cutting, and the hairs should be cut as soon as you touch them with the razor. When you reach this point, remember what the results of your armhair test are; do a thumbpad test and remember what the edge feels like. These will be your benchmarks for the future.

BEFORE you go to your finishing hone, strop your razor and have a test shave. You should get a very smooth, very nice shave with no pulling at all. This is the ultimate test of the 8k hone. If you cannot get a smooth, comfortable shave, you have not gotten all you can out of your 8k hone, and going to a finishing hone will not help you. You should not move up to your finishing hone if you cannot get a great shave off your 8k hone. If the shave is not great, go back to repeat the 10-15 stroke/armhair test process on the 8k. When there is no further improvement, strop and shave again. Keep at it until you get a great shave.

-Bevel setting: Learning to set bevels is the most difficult part of honing. This is not because the process is inherently difficult; it is because every ebay/antique store/estate sale razor will be in a different state of “dullness,” and that is a significant variable. By comparison, all razors that have just had their bevels set are in a rather narrow range; all razors that just need a touchup are in a rather narrow range.

Setting bevels requires you to figure out how dull the razor is, determine if the razor has any “quirks” you’ll have to address, have the confidence to keep removing steel until you get the bevel set, recognize when the bevel is set and stop, and maintain even strokes to avoid putting uneven wear on the razor. That is a lot to think about! Fortunately, if you have already learned the sharpening/polishing and finishing/touchup stages above, you’ll be at an advantage. Those stages will have already taught you to maintain an even stroke and to recognize when a bevel is set; they will also help you build confidence in your honing abilities. All that will be left is to figure out how dull the razor is and what “quirks” you may have to address.

There are a few things you can do to make these last two areas easier. Try to learn on razors that don’t have any chips, razors that sit flat on hones, razors with minimal and even wear, razors with half to full hollow grinds, and, most importantly, inexpensive razors that you wouldn’t really mind ruining – just in case. But whatever you do, make sure you are using a quality razor – razors on the do not buy list may never actually take a bevel, so you’ll never know if you are doing the right thing or not.

Excellent write up Dylan. Makes me wish I had learned it that way. HAH!

Originally Posted by bassguy

Excellent write up Dylan. Makes me wish I had learned it that way. HAH!

I wish I'd learned that way too.... I did learn a honing stroke doing touchups on a Swaty. I can remember practicing on the edge of the Swaty, which is maybe 1 cm "wide" to work on keeping the razor flat. But after that, I fell into the trap of getting a BBW/Coti and messing with slurry.

If I could go back in time and be patient enough, I would learn how I wrote about it.

For the most part, I can generally get a good shaving edge on a razor. This isn't because I have some natural talent, or stones quarried on Mars, or razors that leap to the stones and beg to be honed. I've been taught to hone by other members who gave of their time and their stone resources to help someone else down the sometimes frustrating trail. Special thanks to Holli4, JoeD, Carrie, not to mention Lynn and Don at last year's WNY meet. I hope to pass the favor on when I can, and I hope to keep learning, and I hope I don't get a case of fathead and get ahead of myself.

New members -- post where you live! Besides being interesting in itself, knowing your location might just be a ticket to meeting someone with like interests, and just maybe an assist into the world of honing.

Or maybe it will just become another addiction to feed; can't help you there.

Originally Posted by holli4pirating

-Bevel setting: Learning to set bevels is the most difficult part of honing. This is not because the process is inherently difficult; it is because every ebay/antique store/estate sale razor will be in a different state of “dullness,” and that is a significant variable. By comparison, all razors that have just had their bevels set are in a rather narrow range; all razors that just need a touchup are in a rather narrow range.

Setting bevels requires you to figure out how dull the razor is, determine if the razor has any “quirks” you’ll have to address, have the confidence to keep removing steel until you get the bevel set, recognize when the bevel is set and stop, and maintain even strokes to avoid putting uneven wear on the razor. That is a lot to think about! Fortunately, if you have already learned the sharpening/polishing and finishing/touchup stages above, you’ll be at an advantage. Those stages will have already taught you to maintain an even stroke and to recognize when a bevel is set; they will also help you build confidence in your honing abilities. All that will be left is to figure out how dull the razor is and what “quirks” you may have to address.

There are a few things you can do to make these last two areas easier. Try to learn on razors that don’t have any chips, razors that sit flat on hones, razors with minimal and even wear, razors with half to full hollow grinds, and, most importantly, inexpensive razors that you wouldn’t really mind ruining – just in case. But whatever you do, make sure you are using a quality razor – razors on the do not buy list may never actually take a bevel, so you’ll never know if you are doing the right thing or not.

If I could make a suggestion regarding the section quoted above. After reading it I had a feeling something was missing- and that is that you don't really describe to someone who wouldn't know better WHAT actually does 'setting a bevel' mean, and HOW do you go about doing it. I'd suggest either leaving this section out, or somehow linking it to a separate article maybe. You could keep the section in, but if I were new to honing, I think I would still be left clueless as to this stage after reading the above. Perhaps a diagram would help, showing what a bevel should theoretically look like and what a dulling edge would look like in comparison?