Thread: Leo's Daddy Learns to Hone (picture heavy)

Originally Posted by olafurson

Good day, Gentlemen!

So, I tried it again. Unicot method, Round 2.

One other thing about me that Bart has not yet learned, is I don't easily give up.

I kinda reckoned that, but you said earlier you were only allowing it one shot.

Originally Posted by olafurson

For now, I'm going to assume that Bart has chosen the coticule as his honing weapon of choice not just because he lives in Belgium, but because he actually LIKES the darn thing.

Actually both. But allow me to assure you that my small collection of hones includes a Coticule, a Nakayama and a Chosera 10K. I can give each of those three my best shot on three identical razors, and I guarantee you that only a seasoned straight razor shaver with experience on each of those hones would be able to discern between them. I can also guarantee you using Chromium Oxide paste on any of those 3 razor would not make them shaves more effortlessly.

Originally Posted by olafurson

Hmmm.. I guess one could compare honing with a coticule vs. a Norton to shaving with a straight vs. my electric razor. The coticule is more difficult, takes more finesse, longer to learn, less intuitive, fussier... but funner. And awesomer. And more rare, since not as many guys use it as do the Norton setup.

Let's not exaggerate. Honing on a Coticule is not that difficult. It just takes some confidence, and we've seen people struggling with the Norton too.

Originally Posted by olafurson

I ended up doing 15 rounds of 30 passes on slurried coticule, and was fairly convinced that the Wonderedge was shaving arm hair pretty well, so finished up with the rest of the Unicot method as usual.

It was certainly better than last time! Not nearly shave ready, but better. I got a good two passes out of the razor this time and didn't have to resort to a back up razor. Not nearly ready for the ol' ATG though.

Sounds like you're on the right track.
Most likely, your secondary bevel isn't sharp enough yet. Just reapply the tape, and make another 60 X-strokes on the Coticule with water. It'll cost you less then 5 minutes.

The first stropping is very important. Don't be too shy on pressure. You need a clear draw between the razor and the strop. And some speed during the stroke. You can flip as slow as you like, but get some speed in that stroke.

Originally Posted by olafurson

I am noticing some hone wear now on the spine (easy to see through the tarnish on this blade!) that parallels what is showing up on the edge - which I guess is the point. My honed edge looked much more even this time - not so many wider and narrower bits.

It looks good on the picture. Don't worry about those 60 additional laps. Honing on a Coticule with water is amazingly slow. Normally it only polishes, but on that very narrow secondary bevel it actually has some refining power. When that bevel grows, the Coticule on water will automatically slow down, but by then you should really have hit the keenness barrier of the Coticule. Which is plenty shaveready.

Best regards,
Bart.

Originally Posted by Bart

I kinda reckoned that, but you said earlier you were only allowing it one shot.

That was only if Round One sucked rocks. Which fortunately, it didn't.

Originally Posted by Bart

Most likely, your secondary bevel isn't sharp enough yet. Just reapply the tape, and make another 60 X-strokes on the Coticule with water. It'll cost you less then 5 minutes.

Music to my ears! I'll do it tonight.

Originally Posted by jrlosh

Congrats on your progress.

This may seem like a silly question but I could not find this in the wiki.

Lets say you have done your pyramid and you are not happy with the results. Do you do a bevel check or go back to square one? ie run the razor across some glass to dull the edge even further or try and improve on what you already have?

No, I wouldn't bread knife the blade if I didn't like the results on the razor after a pyramid. If I am doing an aggressive pyramid and the edge isn't shaving my arm, then I may need to do a another "HALF" pyramid or further analyze my technique as it make be not up to par. An aggressive pyramid SHOULD make any razor able to shave arm hair, especially on the Norton 4/8k. After that you would do conservative pyramids to improve the edge (this is a sharpening step).

I usually do 1-2 conservative pyramids and then test shave with OUT any stropping or anything added to the edge, this includes pastes, linen leather stropping before the shave, etc.

If the shave is a little rough, not sharp enough or is pulling I may do some more runs on the Norton 8K side (about 15 laps) and then test shave again without any aids. This process will help you tune in the edge to a good shave result, then and only then would I move to a polish or a higher grit hone for enhancement.

I don't want to distract this thread from what it was originally intended to be though. Any questions past this I can be PMed at any time.

Your right I should have sent a PM. I was looking for the thread jack icon but could not find it. Thanks for the info.

Originally Posted by Disburden

No, I wouldn't bread knife the blade if I didn't like the results on the razor after a pyramid. If I am doing an aggressive pyramid and the edge isn't shaving my arm, then I may need to do a another "HALF" pyramid or further analyze my technique as it make be not up to par. An aggressive pyramid SHOULD make any razor able to shave arm hair, especially on the Norton 4/8k. After that you would do conservative pyramids to improve the edge (this is a sharpening step).

I usually do 1-2 conservative pyramids and then test shave with OUT any stropping or anything added to the edge, this includes pastes, linen leather stropping before the shave, etc.

If the shave is a little rough, not sharp enough or is pulling I may do some more runs on the Norton 8K side (about 15 laps) and then test shave again without any aids. This process will help you tune in the edge to a good shave result, then and only then would I move to a polish or a higher grit hone for enhancement.

I don't want to distract this thread from what it was originally intended to be though. Any questions past this I can be PMed at any time.

Good evening, Gentlemen! That's right, it's time for Honing Day 5!

First of all, Bart, you're the MAN!!

Here's what happened tonight. Taking Bart's advice, I took up the Wonderedge and my hone, now safely back in its awesome box.



I wet the stone, and did 60 water-only passes. Well, actually, more like 70 because I thought ten of them didn't feel like they "counted".

Here was my edge, which looks a little shinier I think:


Then, I remembered the tape! D'ohh!!!!!!!!!

So I taped the spine, and did another 60 (70) passes with tape. That honing with tape feels REALLY good, very nice slow gripping feedback. My new and improved edge:



Oh, by the way, did I ever mention I do have one of those $10 Radio Shack magnifiers? I've never really used it, but did so tonight and compared to this awesome picture from coticule.be:



Well, it turns out my edge was more like this:



OK, the proportions are very much out of whack, but you get the idea. At the heel of the blade, all I could see was second bevel. That quickly (within an inch of the heel) tapered down until all I saw was first bevel, in the middle of the razor. Then, by the time I got to the toe, I could see the 2nd bevel reappearing, but only about 1/5 of the way up the first bevel.

Strangely, the first bevel looks REALLY uniform along the blade.

Honestly, my thumb PAD test told me the same thing. Gripped like a mofo at the heel and toe, slid right over the middle. Magnification only served to confirm what my thumb was telling me. Neato!

Screw it, I said, and shaved with it anyways. It was kind of like using two razors at once, actually - I used the sharp heel in some places, and the sharp toe in others.

At the end of the day.......... three whole beautiful passes, and...

BBS!!!!!!!

Woohoo!!!! I shaved with my first honed-all-by-myself razor!!

Now, somebody help me. What did I do wrong to screw up the second bevel?

Actually, let me rephrase the question. In hindsight, I could tell two days ago that the middle of the razor wasn't sharpening up as it should have been. It never did cut arm hair like the heel and toe did. I can also tell that I'm doing more of a straight back-and-forth motion on the coti than an x-stroke (newbie!). Think that's the problem? I find when I get to the toe, my lazy wrist has dropped and I'm not holding the scales up as high as I was when the entire blade was on the stone. Think that's it? What do I need to do to correct the unequal bevels?

I think it's finally time to post an SOTD. So... here it is!

Congratulations! It feels so rewarding to shave with your own edge doesn't it? I think that's what gets some of us hook.
I personally have never seen a coticule in person, but this thread has been very helpful in my own honing and in case I should ever break down and get one. Thanks and good honing!

Way to go!

The inconsistency in the edge is all in the honing stroke.
Razors are very often not mathematically straight. The X-stroke shifts the point of contact, to assure that you are working on all parts of the edge. You really must adopt a good X-stroke, or these kind of edge inconsistencies will haunt you for the rest of your honing days.
Your analysis of where you went out of line with your honing stroke is pretty accurate, I believe.

The good news is: you now know you can get it sharp. You only need to copy it to the entire edge. Just take your time doing well articulated X-strokes. Precision is way more important than speed. Speed will develop when your cerebrum takes over from your frontal brain lobes.
Frontal brain lobes are much clumsier than the cerebrum, that is the very reason why people, with enough practice can learn how to juggle. Bottom line: this is something you just can't rush, regardless the hones you use and honing method you're following.
Just keep honing razors. Don't wait too long before the next one. Practice regularly. Keep checking your results with magnification and the TPT. You'll be fine. Soon, you'll find it hard to imagine you could make such and uneven strokes in the beginning. Remember it's like learning a music instrument.

Kind regards,
Bart.

Originally Posted by Bart

Way to go!

The inconsistency in the edge is all in the honing stroke.
Razors are very often not mathematically straight. The X-stroke shifts the point of contact, to assure that you are working on all parts of the edge. You really must adopt a good X-stroke, or these kind of edge inconsistencies will haunt you for the rest of your honing days...................Bart.

+1... I had this explained to me last night on the phone. I had never thought that through. I realized that a perfectly equal pass each way consistently for many passes is what makes a keen edge. Even one blunder and you mess up the edge in some way. I did hundreds of passes on a practice blade on my 8K trying to get 50+ strokes without any blunders in pressure or form. DANG THAT IS HARD

Now I understand why a really good edge is all about the stroke. If both sides of the blade aren't honed exactly the same, you will never get the most from the blade.

barry

Well Done Greg!!
and many many many happy little steps of achievement on the way to becoming a skilled honer of straight razors!

I of course always knew you would do it

I had to try this myself since this thread has had an increasingly motivating effect on me...

I own a coticule bout which is a small trapezoid shape, unlike the large rectangular one shown earlier, in addition to a BBW and a recently acquired barber's hone.

I have only ever touched up razors honed by others, but today tried the unicot method.

Sweet, it works! Managed to shave out of a Joseph Allen & Sons Sheffield that was as blunt as a butter knife that I won on ebay some time ago.

As I had no slurry stone for the coticule, I broke a small piece off, which worked like a charm.

Great method to which initially seemed like a myth to be able to do all one one stone - well nearly all. I finished with 5 laps on the barber's hone to pass the HHT followed by some CROX, then the canvas and leather...Im learning!

Great thread. Now I need a full size coticule, and a pay rise to acquire one