Thread: People who tape their spine, then sell that razor irritate me.

Ok, so I got a Fantastic deal on a Filharm. Thing arrives with zero bevel wear. I ask seller it's history, and apparently they've been using it for 2-3 years. Hmm says I.

I shave a bit. It tugs. I check the edge, it's decent but not great. I hone and strop. Passes HHT easy (another thread on why the HHT irritates me).

I put it aside for a day. Pick it up and shave with it today. One of my worst shaves ever. Damnit says I... having a sneaking suspicion I know what's wrong. But against my better judgement, I check the edge, figure I must have just not honed well enough, and back to my honing. After an hour on my 4k bear I finally admit that I was right in the first suspicion. I've been sawing away at spine and slope with a highgrit stone because the previous owner taped the spine. No big deal, razor won't be as pretty when I fix it, but it wont take long.

So I break out the 1k to take off all the material that should have been taken off over the past 2-3 years. Task is made super-easy by the fact that somehow the previous owner blued the edge (some kind of extra glide coating I assume). I check under my scope every few passes and watch my nice clean silver envelop the blue... all except for the center. Damnit... says I, this previous owner couldn't hone for crap. So after about 30x (no joke) as many passes as it took me to rebevel at the toe and heel, I finally have a true and beveled razor... but here's the best part... the bevel at the heel is probably ~4-5mm deep... This guy guided the razor with his offhand about 10% north of center, it looks like with either a thumb or fat middle finger. It was noticable enough I can be that exact.

And because the razor was only a 4/8" to begin with the concavity wasn't noticable before... but once it's fixed, the spine sure makes it obvious. The irony is that there's no way he ever would have screwed the edges true up that much if it weren't for his using tape, which kept the spine from doing it's job while he was honing. So in the end the thing that did by far the most damage to the razor was his attempt to prevent damage to it. I am now THOROUGHLY convinced that telling newbies to tape spines is possibly the worst advice you can give. Yes, an experience honester would have been able to keep the edge true even with the tape on. But the tape effectively removes the built in level of your razor as well as amplifying any downward pressure you apply to it. I can't think of anything worse to do when you're trying to learn honing.

You're making a lot of assumptions and are even quicker to judge.

A layer of tape or not, won't do or undo all the bad things you adhere to it.

From what I understand of your description, being a bit overconfident in your presumed understanding of what was wrong with the razor, you seem to have done weird things to the bevel, and in any case waisted a lot of steel on what sounded as a nice razor.
Blaming it all on the previous owner, does not make much sense. I'm sorry to bring that message blunt.

To avoid misunderstandings: I normally don't use tape on a razor. I do use the HHT, but not to predict the quality of an unknown edge. I don't know the razor or the guy you bought it from.

Best regards,
Bart.

It's not really a question. There was an obvious visible distinction between my honing scars and the previous bevel. The only way that happens is if the razors edge has been brought in (through the use of tape during honing). Upon a level honing the bevel corrected at the heel and toe almost immediately, due to there being almost no edge regression at those points. The center however did not. It required more than ~2mm (flat) of spine to be chewed away before I was able to even touch the bevel beyond it's interior edge through level honing.


There really is no way this could have happened outside of what I postulate. He taped the edge and brought far too much weight down at the center of the razor. The tape on the edges absorbing it (due to the differences in the physical response tape takes vs steel to pressure), while the center tape merely compressed, multiplying the pressure by focusing it on the center edge.

There's nothing wrong with taping the spine. When i sell a razor, I always let the new owner know how it's been honed. Pretty much always, that's with a layer of tape, & i tell them the progression too.
Likewise, if i recieve a razor with no indication of how it's been honed, a friendly pm or email & i get my answer in no time.
It sounds like you're misdirecting your irritation due to the effects of your honing on the blade. An hour on a 4k hone? I'd have realised something was amiss right there, & i'm no honemiester.

Nope, blades pretty nice now actually. It's gonna be a gem of a shaver. I was upset about the amount of metal I needed to remove to true it, which was far more than it's use would have required if it had been honed properly, or at least improperly without tape. The combination of poor honing and tape gave the razor a frown that required significant work to eliminate.

If your customers are happy with the razors you hone for them taped, then that's excellent. However, I don't like tape on my razors. And I don't like it on my razors for one simple reason. By taping it, you bring in the edge, and since there is a zero probability that the next time you hone you'll get the exact same thickness of tape on it, you are forcing yourself to either steepen the angle with every hone or grind out the spine and body you taped to avoid grinding out in the first place.

Every time you tape a razor, you are effectively trading edge life for spine and body life. And the spine and body are never the reason a razor's shave degrades. If your razor has markings on the body you wish to preserve, I can certainly see the purpose. And I understand when honemeisters do it to prevent visible damage to a customers razor. Personally if I ever send a razor to one I'll ask that they don't tape it, as I'm more concerned with the invisible damage. But I don't understand suggesting new honers do it, as it doesn't help with honing in any way, and in fact amplifies the effects of honing mistakes. And the previous owner of this razor was obviously new to honing.

As for the hour. I lose track of time when I'm honing. I'm usually watching tv or more accurately listening to tv. On my 4k there really was no significant amount of metal getting removed and as I said, I already suspected the bevel was in, so I figured there was nothing really to lose by being sure before I took it to a 1k, as I was not looking forward to grinding out a new bevel. Call it denial if you will. I was so happy with the condition of the razor, I didn't want to admit that it only looked good and actually needed more work than most of the junk razors I buy.

Still, those scales are freaking sweet... and it's beveled now, so next shave's gonna be all the sweeter.

Hmm... I'm a fan of analogies. So I'm going to analogize a taped razor to a modded Console gaming system. Yes, you may consider it better than stock. But it isn't stock, and stock is what is expected. So when someone buys it from you and discovers that they can't play their games online with it... the ability to play imported games and CD-R copies of games doesn't change the fact that the device has been altered from it's intended design in a way that interferes with it's intended use.

I know the detrimental effect on a blade caused by taping the spine. It's a trade off. I know that over the years it will change the relationship between edge & spine. I've just made the decision that i'd rather do it.
I'm glad you got it how you wanted it. A frown is a terrible thing!
I don't really have customers. I just use razors till i'm ready for a change, then move them on to justify getting new ones!

Yeah. I suppose someone who likes taping their razors feels the same way about the visual defects caused by not taping them. It's a "Why did they ruin that razor," effect. But it's a two way street. I guess the no-tapers do have the advantage of usually being able to undo the effects of taping, if at the cost of a little lifespan.

And another expert is born!
I agree with Bart, and if you continue with honing razors one day you'll be embarassed by the bombastic statements your are making well outside your area of experience.

Well, with eight years of honing upwards of fifty knives and 1-5 cutting plates a week and seeing every kind of damage to an edge you can imagine, I respectfully disagree.

Honing razors is a very different game, as i'm sure you know. I had plenty of knife sharpening experience, but had to learn razors as a new skill.
To be fair, although your first post did seem to me to be a little irate, your responses have been very calm & perfectly reasonable. We all have our own methods & should attempt to remain broadminded about the methods of others, though we may sometimes perceive them as downright wrong.