Thread: People who tape their spine, then sell that razor irritate me.

First of all, let me say I'm no honemeister.

But I do tape. I figured I'd rather protect the spine and I find it hard to believe that a layer of tape thats 0.0X mil thick is really going to throw the edge off that much that it requires that much hone time.

And thats not me talking as a razor expert or anything, thats just a common sense approach. The tape changes the angle by what? Half a degree, if that? How much of a difference is that going to make?

Ok, I know that as you remove material the effect will be more pronounced, but how much material do you remove when you hone? Again, it cant be more than a few hundreds to a thousandth of an inch in thickness. A razor should last for DECADES before you even notice it.

Besides which, a layer of tape isnt that "squashy". How much will a layer of tape flatten? A few hundreds of an inch maybe? A thousandth of an inch? Certainly not enough to require a honing marathon.

Sounds to me like it was just a bad honing job before hand, and it took some time to correct it.

EDIT: I'm not saying you're wrong here. I'm just throwing out some questions and a possible solution..!

If you use tape, and then need to touch up a razor, then it is true that the tape thickness will not be 100% identical to the last time it was taped. But if you use the same tape every time, this is really negligable. The angle offset incurred by that difference is virtually nothing, and it won't change the lifespan of the blade.

You shouldn't go back and forth between tape and no tape, aye, but as long as you stick with tape it doesn't really matter.

Originally Posted by IanS

It's not really a question. There was an obvious visible distinction between my honing scars and the previous bevel. The only way that happens is if the razors edge has been brought in (through the use of tape during honing). Upon a level honing the bevel corrected at the heel and toe almost immediately, due to there being almost no edge regression at those points. The center however did not. It required more than ~2mm (flat) of spine to be chewed away before I was able to even touch the bevel beyond it's interior edge through level honing.

Above statement is true

There really is no way this could have happened outside of what I postulate. He taped the edge and brought far too much weight down at the center of the razor. The tape on the edges absorbing it (due to the differences in the physical response tape takes vs steel to pressure), while the center tape merely compressed, multiplying the pressure by focusing it on the center edge.

This i have no idea what are you talking about? You are confused and confusing me more.

In your early first post i have got lost man.I mean it.
What tape does to the edge?
1 makes more steel to support the edge that is it.
but as you mention it will safe the back from hone wear.
Some soft steel blades there is no way you could hone without tape.
Why? it just so soft brakes down before it gets sharp enough to cut darn hair.
Now if blade has been taped always Sooner or later in one day you will end up taking tape off. the reason edge will not touch the stone anymore.
This happens approximately(depends how often it has been used and honed) 1.5 years.
What you saying about differences on the bevel honed with tape and without tape is not truth.Sorry you or anyone else never could say just by watching the bevel and say this bevel honed with tape or without it.
You need to make couple strokes on the hone then check the bevel. In this case you will see clear which part of the bevel touched the stone. then you can say this blade taped or not taped.
Second You said that you sharpen blade shaved and Next day it was dull?
You think this is because of blade has been taped? himmmm
Opposite taped edge will last longer usually then not taped edge?(i should clear this a little. Edge which made by taping of the back of the blade will last longer then not taped one)
I think you should Calm down and See what people says .what Bart said is correct. Just try razor again and see what happens.
I am not saying your honing has problems etc just check the edge and see what is really wrong with it.
weight ,pressure differences etc has nothing do to with taping of the back.
hope this helps.
gl

From my understanding 1 layer of tape won't affect the degree of bevel. What if he indeed couldn't hone and was just using a layer of tape? Judging from your post you sound like an expert. Since I'm no honemeister perhaps you can educate me as to why 2 of 3 razors I honed come nearly close to a new shave ready razor. The one razor in question, no tape was used. But that's beside the point. I know it needs more work. To each his own mate.

I don't know where you read info regarding spine taping being suggested for new honers as I've never read that on the wiki much less threads. Perhaps it's my oversight.

Beginner's Guide to Honing - Straight Razor Place Wiki

Frequently Asked Questions - Straight Razor Place Wiki

Originally Posted by IanS

Well, with eight years of honing upwards of fifty knives and 1-5 cutting plates a week and seeing every kind of damage to an edge you can imagine, I respectfully disagree.

Congratulations mate! I guess your eight years of honing knives is equivalent to approximately 9000 razors Lynn hones per year.

I've recommended that new honers use tape based on my own experience when I was a new honer. I honed everything with one layer of tape for over a year before I began experimenting with honing without tape. Mostly my own razors with an accumulation pushing 200 by now. Some for others and I used tape on those if the owner wanted it or no tape if that was what they wanted. I've since given up using tape when honing my own unless it is a Damascus blade, a decorated spine, or a spine with significant and uneven wear.

The point in mentioning the amount is that I'm not talking about having 1 or 2 razors and honing them relatively often over a period of years. In that case perhaps the difference in having the edge wear from honing with no spine wear might have a negative effect on the geometry of the razor.

I think a new honer should begin with tape to learn the stroke and the pressure before he rides bareback. You can always remove metal but you cannot put it back. Those of us who collect and hone vintage blades have encountered enough blades with uneven spine and or edge wear to know that they can be brought back to shave ready. An inexperienced honer can do more damage to a blade with too many strokes and too much pressure. Far more than would be done if there was the protection of a layer of tape. Just IMHO.

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

I've recommended that new honers use tape based on my own experience when I was a new honer. I honed everything with one layer of tape for over a year before I began experimenting with honing without tape. Mostly my own razors with an accumulation pushing 200 by now. Some for others and I used tape on those if the owner wanted it or no tape if that was what they wanted. I've since given up using tape when honing my own unless it is a Damascus blade, a decorated spine, or a spine with significant and uneven wear.

The point in mentioning the amount is that I'm not talking about having 1 or 2 razors and honing them relatively often over a period of years. In that case perhaps the difference in having the edge wear from honing with no spine wear might have a negative effect on the geometry of the razor.

I think a new honer should begin with tape to learn the stroke and the pressure before he rides bareback. You can always remove metal but you cannot put it back. Those of us who collect and hone vintage blades have encountered enough blades with uneven spine and or edge wear to know that they can be brought back to shave ready. An inexperienced honer can do more damage to a blade with too many strokes and too much pressure. Far more than would be done if there was the protection of a layer of tape. Just IMHO.

I had no honing experience prior to joining this club and I have taped the spine since I began learning and I'm quite happy with the results so far.

The first straight I used was an heirloom razor sharpened by Glen. He used tape on the spine and after having used it, that's all the evidence I need in support of a taped spine.

IanS you have won a fellow devotee of the non tape method.
You cant hold back tide or time nor wear or teae!

After all wear is an integeral part of using a razor and after honing many thousands of knives to an exceptional standard both by my own standards and customer expectations.

And now upwards of 100+ straight edges I have found that you need to let the bevel set at what the manufacturer stated and if that means normal wear to the shoulder and spine then be it so.

After all what did they do berore insulation tape was invented lol

Originally Posted by commiecat

I had no honing experience prior to joining this club and I have taped the spine since I began learning and I'm quite happy with the results so far.

The first straight I used was an heirloom razor sharpened by Glen. He used tape on the spine and after having used it, that's all the evidence I need in support of a taped spine.

I honed a many of them with one layer of tape and got fine results. Matter of fact Tim Zowada may not be the last word in honing but all of his razors are Damascus and are taped with one layer to get to the finishing stage and then two more for a total of three layers for the double bevel. My two Zowadas are shaving just spiffy.

I keep going back and forth on taping vs not taping. I dont believe there is a problem either way.

I always tape when I need to use my dmt though... but that is almost resto at that point.