Thread: People who tape their spine, then sell that razor irritate me.

Now yer just reaching trying to save face,,,,

What you don't understand is that even if your "science" were right, which it isn't, hands on experience with thousands of razors honed with tape would prove it invalid..

Once again if you don't want to tape your razor then don't, but please don't try to tell us that it irritates you when somebody else does, or that we're wrong for doing it.. Because to many people use tape and we already know it does work...

Yesterday I had to correct a razor with near identical symptoms that you describe, except it was 2-3 weeks old & had not seen any tape. For the record I don't use tape either.
The razor was simply unevenly ground & the owner had made it worse. The spine did not "appear" warped & had minimal even wear but the edge bevel did not reflect this. Maybe the use of tape was inappropriate for your razor but don't assume that is so in all cases.

When in fact razors were designed so that honing them requires only a moderately steady hand and a little basic knowledge.

And there's the rub! Pure Hubris!

You honestly assume sharpening a kitchen knife's edge is comparable to getting a smooth shaving razor's edge? LOL I'm laughing too hard to even type right now....uhhh ya... last I checked my tomatoes and onions won't get razorburn from a shitty knife's edge.. err... or maybe some of those heirloom one's might.

The razor is designed to hone properly with it's design, but to claim it takes little skill to do so is pretty much hubris, but I digress. I'll hand you a frameback and a true wedge and you tell me they we're both designed to hone themselves....lol I'll see you in a hour or so and get you to shave with it....LOL

Apparently your also an expert on electrical tape compression ratios. I like that, it reminds me of an old addage.

"when you fight with a pig you both get dirty, but the pig likes it."

cheers
D

Ian, listen to what they say, they know their stuff. I agree that knife honing is a more complex craft than razor honing, but the experience is not interchangeable.

I have two obvious little peeves with taping spines and I hope the meisters here will not mind me sharing it:

1. the tape wears off way faster than steel, and may lead to rounded bevels if you are not careful about replacing worn tape frequently enough and I hate replacing it because I am a lazy animal (this could be mitigated by choosing a better tape than my $1 electrician's tape from the Dollar Tree stores). OTOH, fresh tape usually results in the very edge touching the hone (if your bevel is set right); which is good especially when you do it before moving to a higher grit hone.

2. once you begin taping some of them and/or use different numbers of layers, you have to have a discipline for a good honing log or have a damn good memory.

To figure out whether and how much taping a razor may need, I use the old good trick with a permanent marker and a few laps on a fine polisher. Sometimes asking the sellers does not work, especially if they had honed the razor months and months ago.

Sharpening razors is quite different than sharpening knives.
I am not an expert in sharpening razors but I can shave very nicely from the ones I have sharpened so far.
I however come from knife sharpening before I started straight shaving.

Preventing spine wear can increase edge angle by upwards of 5 degree's over the life of the razor. You're turning your razor into a kitchen knife.

Now this is a bit ridiculous, I have sharpened my Gyuto to ~7 deg total does that make it a razor, because it can shave just fine?
I think the problem might be in your understanding of what 0.5 - 1 deg increase of angle means in terms of thickness of the blade right behind the be.
Lets take for example my #13 Filli. the blade thickness right behind the bevel is 0.13mm, I am going to very generously assume 15* angle (the bevel is so small that I can't measure but I'll estimate 1/4 mm) so that means the bevel is 0.49 mm long. If the angle increases by 1* ,the bevel becomes 0.46mm. Now a person that hones properly will change the bevel angle by 1* in maybe 2-3 honingns, which will take place in a span of few years. So realistically to increase the angle of the razor so much to be unusable will take decades.
As you can see from calculations the angle on my razor is in the 7* range which is consistent with 1/4mm bevel. Everyone that has seen #13 old forgings knows what I mean.

Originally Posted by sparq

Ian, listen to what they say, they know their stuff. I agree that knife honing is a more complex craft than razor honing, but the experience is not interchangeable.

The real funny thing is I totally agree here, I can't sharpen a knife for love or money... But I don't try and claim that because I can sharpen a razor, too stupid sharp, that it somehow makes me qualified to tell anyone how...

Originally Posted by IanS

. The only problem was it was almost exclusively honed in the center. The toe and heel were very close to the original edge.

I did thank You for your opinion(doesn't matter it is right or wrong) on the original Thread.
I have quote this .
This happens when you use not perfect flat hone. And person mostly uses straight strokes not x pattern.
I hope this will help you.
GL

Here is a quote from one of Lynn Abrams archived posts,

"I think the biggest problem out there not unlike shaving is that people think because they have honed knives or tools forever and shaved since they were 12 that it's gonna be very easy and expect it to be. "The problem *CAN'T* be me". But a razors edge is a very delicate instrument and with a little patience and experimentation, you *CAN* learn to hone with the best of them, even if you are just honing for your own satisfaction. The search for that absolute perfect or just a little better shave resulting from that just a little better edge is never ending."

We who have honed with 1 layer ... or whatever ... of tape know what works. I have chosen to go to no tape since becoming confident in my skill level. When I was new I feared I might do more harm than good without the tape. Here is another quote from Lynn Abrams,

"Where I see the problems daily when honing or fixing people razors is that they use hundreds of strokes and uneven pressure and end up with bevels on top of bevels and uneven spines and all kinds of interesting stuff. Every time I see sandpaper scratches on an edge or blade, I know I need to go from scratch on that razor to repair the deep scratch marks, set a new bevel and re-hone the razor."

Until a new guy gets the chops down tape may be a good idea. Once learned it is certainly optional. IME one way is as good as the other.YMMV.

Originally Posted by IanS

Maybe setting a bevel is harder when you tape your razor, in fact I'm fairly sure that it is. But straight razors were clearly designed with the idea in mind that the edge sets itself. That's the whole reason you want spine wear. It maintains that design.

Sorry mate, but I'm one of those that thinks there is nothing "attractive" about a worn spine. And I can't honestly say I've ever wanted spine wear either. Some may agree with you, but I don't.

Many members more experienced than I will tell you it's no fun setting bevels and honing razors with appreciable spine wear, as it will not always be even on both sides. In fact taping the spine can therefore be beneficial in these cases, and not the detriment that you claim above.

[QUOTE=gssixgun;500209]Trey you always bring a smile to my face reading yer posts my friend...




Off Topic
For all my schooling, my spelling adn grammer are horrid!
I just remember a beating I took from a member here when I got started. I took several and deserved many of them.
Remember the quote from Men In Black
"Let me tell you something about your skills, right now they mean precisely, dick!"
"K"