Thread: People who tape their spine, then sell that razor irritate me.

Gentlemen,

This has been a very interesting debate so far. Some great ideas in here, too. To give everybody the chance to re-assess their positions (and maybe read up on previous discussions around the same topic, of which there are quite a few really good ones), I am closing this thread for a few hours.

Thank you for your understanding,
Robin

[Edit] Thread is re-opened. Please let us have your arguments in a gentlemanly fashion.

Thanks a bunch for the links. I think I'm done here. It seems I stirred a hornets nest with my comments and I'm sorry for that. I readily admit that I don't know everything about honing. I don't even know much about honing. I can do it on my razors and my knives and I can't say much more than that about it. I'm sorry if it seemed I was condemning those that have much more experience than me for honing as they wish to. I was upset over a very poor honing job, which I feel anyone who might have had the chance to witness in person would have seen was almost certainly aggravated by the use of tape, if only by obscuring the significant damage that was done. Somehow that got into an argument over taping from some offhanded comments I made about my views on the dangers of recommending tape to new honers (based on most of the taped razors I've had having much worse edges and requiring much more work to bevel as I wanted them beveled than the razors I bought with spine wear). I got carried away and for that I apologize.

I still feel that it is naive to acknowledge that you are changing the angle by a significant ratio of a razor and offhandedly dismiss that it affects it's cutting properties. Since cutting implements were discovered by primitive man millions of years ago, we've been at least indistinctly aware of the significant importance (I would argue most significant) of the angle of the cutting edge. Now you may feel that the difference between a 15 and 25 degree cutting edge (inclusive) is not a significant change in the quality of your shave, and if you feel that way you are obviously right. But to insist that it gives no change in the quality of shaves for anyone, or even for a majority and then claim that you're basing this judgment of others experiences on your own extensive experience strikes me as extremely disingenuous. It simply is not a call that can be made on personal trial, regardless if you have tested it on a million razors yourself.

What it comes down to for me, is that I only consider a razors appearance if performance is completely removed from the question. If I could have the most beautiful razor in the world for only the slightest decrease in my enjoyment of the shave, I would turn it down withoupt a moment's thought. And I do not, and can not believe that a significant change in edge angle does not impact the razors performance in at least a minor way. Maybe it wouldn't be enough of a change to be noticeable for five years, maybe ten, maybe fifty. Maybe the slow rate of change would make perceiving the difference impossible. But I'm quite sure the difference would be there, and conscious or not, I would be aware of it. Perhaps thirty years from now, I'll consider shaving with a honed in razor that I still consider consciously to be every bit as good as it was thirty years before and decide, no I have better things to do. I really wanted to catch this television program right now, I'll shave later. And perhaps if I hadn't taped that edge, and had maintained the angle, the subconscious cues that led me to turn down that shave would have instead made me unconsciously aware of the ever so slightly better shave I'd enjoy and I'd decide to shave instead. That tiny difference is really enough for me to personally not want to tape my razor. But that entire conversation was really an awkward tangent for this thread to begin with. And I had no intention to turn it into this much of a debate. Perhaps I made my original post a bit to harshly worded, and perhaps there was already a little too much soreness over this particular issue here that I was unaware of (Some of the replies disputing stances that I had specifically stated in previous posts were not what I was saying would suggest that). And I'm sorry for stirring it back up. I did not mean to.

Edit: Aha, ignore me. I suck at excel and finally found your "method" screen and you ARE measuring the hypotenuse. Yeah, that's the inclusive angle. Thanks for confirming it for me. And smart idea using the hypotenuse in fact, since you have the tool for it, as the spine is curved in the back of most razors and that tiny bit of extra depth throws my calculations off (I've actually taken to estimating it out of my measurements).

Great math lesson buried in here somewhere. I kept expecting to see a picture of the razor itself. If the spine is okay you've probably got something good to work with for a long time.

Although I rarely use tape, I would say the proper application of it at the correct time is an essential honing skill. It should be understood and embraced, to include all the nuances involved. Spine damage can be a catasrophic problem.

I read thru this post and thought about when I stuck my foot in my mouth as well. I insulted the "guy" who honed my first straight razor from Classic Shaving...guess who that was? You see, my thoughts were that I was an "expert" as well in regards to edged ANYTHING. How is that? When I quit, I was getting $300 to start on polishing a samurai sword & stayed backlogged about two years. I was an expert, right.... In the short amount of time that I have been SR shaving, I do know one thing...I have much to learn. I know that sharpening a knife is a cake walk for me compared to even a 100+ old tanto polish job, much less a katana polishing. I learned that I was a fool for thinking that I knew how to hone a SR since I know how to sharpen or polish. These guys who you are arguing with have many, many years of experience honing SR's, Ian...you don't. There is a difference between a tool, knife & straight razor and the sooner that you realize this, the sooner you will realize that you too are a fool.

Originally Posted by shooter74743

...you too are a fool.

Aren't we all to some degree or another.
Of all the posts in this thread I believe yours to be the most valuable.

Originally Posted by JMS

Aren't we all to some degree or another.
Of all the posts in this thread I believe yours to be the most valuable.

I thought mine was but they deleted it. (only kidding guys)
And now for something completely different ;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKeEL4CXwIg