Thread: BBW Straight to Nakayama?

Hey all,

So I've been doing all my honing lately on my coticules (either the bbw to coticule, or just straight coticule).

I have a Nakayama Maruichi Kiita (from O_S over the summer). It's a great finisher, but it is fairly slow. One progression I've used is:

coti w/heavy slurry
bbw with light slurry (which is slowy diluted)
coti w/water
Nakayama w/water

The last step can be skipped as I quite like the edge of the coticule. But I was just wondering if I could skip the coti w/water step altogether, since both the coti w/water step and the Nakayama step are both just polishing the edge mostly.

So, anyone go from BBW to Nakayama?

IIRC, I think holli4pirating mentioned going from BBW to his Asagi....I hope you can come along to voice you opinion/findings.

Thanks!

I would have given it a try what can go wrong?

Hm, I've gone straight from my BBW to a different Nakayama and then shaved, but not to my Asagi. However, based on my experiences with my hones, I think going from a BBW to a finisher is quite reasonable. My reasoning is that I can shave comfortably off a BBW, the BBW leaves shallow scratches and a smooth edge. You may be able to save some time/laps by putting another hone in between, but that's something you'd have to play with.

Of course, since they are naturals, it will depend on your specific stones.

Thanks guys.

So it does sound possible, but it might take some work on my Nakayama by the sounds of it. It's not that fast of a cutter, so by taking out the intermediate step (i.e. the coticule w/water step) I would most likely have to add a fair amount of laps with the Nakayama.

It's worth trying some time....I'm trying to experiment and use as few stones as possible.

Use a nagura to raise a slurry on that Nakayama, and it will speed up considerably.

Originally Posted by StraightRazorDave

Thanks guys.

So it does sound possible, but it might take some work on my Nakayama by the sounds of it. It's not that fast of a cutter, so by taking out the intermediate step (i.e. the coticule w/water step) I would most likely have to add a fair amount of laps with the Nakayama.

It's worth trying some time....I'm trying to experiment and use as few stones as possible.

No one can tell you how many strokes it may take, because your Nakayama is unique. Also keep in mind, when you take out intermediary hones, you'll have to spend more time on each hone. It's fun to play with, I do it a lot myself, but I don't think there's any reason not to do 10-20 laps (depending on the size) on your coti before moving on. Not that you're wrong if you don't either, of course.

I do find it a bit surprising that a kiita nakayama is described as slow. esp one stamped/ selected as a top notch hone. Maybe you have not truly unlocked it.

As far a skipping the coticule, i suppose it depends on what the coti does. Mine cuts fairly quick and makes a slight slurry on its own. I might guess it 8-10k My nakayama cuts circles around it -could be 16-30k fine fast and hard.

Nevertheless I do sometimes conjunct them and have made some of my best edges often hopping on the coti after king 4k which I sometimes prefer over shapton or natural middle stone.

I have been trying to incorporate my coticules and my Japanese natural and have done a number of combinations and the results are varying. I know in the past some people have said that certain hones shouldn't be used after the coticule (i.e. the thuringian). Not that I buy that but I have been able to get the most out of my Japanese natural, straight off of my Chosera 5K. The addition of a coticule in between has produced some lesser edges. I don't know why but that is my experience from recent testing. I even tried different edges, i.e. both single and double bevel and still the results weren't as consistent as I had hoped for.

FYI, I have a size 40 Ohira Suitayama Betsujo hone, full of Renge patterning.

This is the progression that I have found has worked the best and after doing it on 4 of my 5 razors I have had 100% success.

1. I dull the edge on the bottom of a glass and TNT it to make sure there is no bite.

2. I do 5 laps on a DMT 1200 and TNT again. Usually that is all it takes to resetablsh the bevel. Even on my super hard Robert Williams razor.

3. I then do 50~100 laps on each of my #3000 and #5000 Naniwa Chosera hones.

4. I take the DMT and rub 10~15 light laps on the top of my Suita to create a slurry.

5. At this point I don't count laps, but I hone until the slurry has dried out to be a thick paste.

6. I do about 20 laps on that thick paste (sometimes it it too dry and I add 1 drop of water), after that I then add water to over hydrate the slurry paste (about as diluted as when I started if not a bit more) and do another 20 or so laps.

7. I wash off the slurry and razor and do about 20~50 on clean water.

8. I then strop a total of 200 laps.　　Personally I go directly to a roughed up TM horsehide (I used a #600 diamond hone to raise a nap) and do 50 laps. Then a warmed up TM latigo and do 50 laps. Then to a Llama cloth for 50 and finally the Llama cordovan for 50.

On carbon, stainless, hard and less hard the results with this progression have been better than anything I have tried to date.

I cannot use a nagura on my suita because it's a suita. But the smooth, oh so keen, edge that it gives is second to none. I really recomend you to start experimenting with your Nakayama to see what it can do. If it isn't a suita then you could also use nagura to do different things.

Hi ZL, man that is a lot of stropping; but I am curious as to the whats whys and where(you heard) not to use nagura on suita?

Originally Posted by ZethLent

I know in the past some people have said that certain hones shouldn't be used after the coticule (i.e. the thuringian). Not that I buy that but I have been able to get the most out of my Japanese natural, straight off of my Chosera 5K.

I read that on a vendor's website after I had already followed a coticule with an escher many times with great success. I can't imagine that the guy who wrote that originally ever actually tried to follow one after the other. Or he had a bum stone. I don't know anything about J-naturals but I read y'all's posts with great interest. The day will come when I will take the plunge.