Thread: Belgium vs Norton

Well if your looking for a reason to buy the coticule its the same as saying a $180 TI will give as good a shave as one of the maestro's so why spend almost $1000 for it?

I have both the norton and the yellow and blue coticule. At this point in my life I use the Norton 4K and then the yellow coticule. I find the blue coticule works very slowly while the yellow imparts a finer edge than the Norton 8K.But is that a reason enough to spend the money. I don't think so. For me I just like using the natural stone. I don't think the increased longevity of the coticule in and of itself is worth the difference either.

You know its just one of those things where you spend your money where you want.

As to using kerosene on the stones that is probably for lubrication purposes. In my college days I used to work in the geology lab grinding, polishing and cutting rocks. Our lap saw with the diamond blade used kerosene as both lube and coolant for the blade. it increased its longevity which is why the commercial operations probably use it with straights in the grinding and honing process.

Bigspendur,
You are right about the lubricating and cooling properties or kerosene. It is in effect a very thin oil that works perfectly for that purpose.

That may be part of why they use it but I was specifically told by someone at TI about the way it disperses the swarf better than water. Probably being less viscous was why it was chosen.

People buy the Belgians because they want them, not because they may or may not be better. I do think they are finer, some say they cut faster (maybe the yellow, not the blue in my experience).

There are those who do feel they are better though than any other stone, and from a surprising source. Jewish "Shochets", that do the ritual Jewish slaughter, "Shechita", for Kosher meats. They perform a very humane slaughter using a special knife, the Chalaf, which looks very similar to a straight razor. The edge on this knife must be as sharp and flawless as one of our razors. The blade is tested before each cut with the thumb nail to be sure there are no nicks or chips on the edge and the Belgian yellow Coticule is the stone of choice for preparing the edge. Many of them will start with a Norton 4/8 for the inital stages and finish with the Norton. They also favor the Escher Water Hone as well for it's superior abilities.

Tony Miller

Originally Posted by thebigspendur

I have both the norton and the yellow and blue coticule.

There is no sych thing as a blue coticule, only the yellow is called that.

Hoekie

OK I can follow that. However I just want to add that while they are beautiful I don't know that I'd spend $1000 on one of the maestro's blades either. But I understand it's really a matter of taste over function.

On second thought if I hit Lotto I would buy one no probably several of the maestro's blades.

Hi Guys, The Colticule I use (with water) is actually at least 12,000 grit. This is the reason I use it after the Norton. You can certainly get a razor shave ready with just a Norton. The Coticule or pastes if you use them, give that little extra glide to the shave. Lynn

Originally Posted by HoekmanX

There is no sych thing as a blue coticule, only the yellow is called that.

Hoekie

Well strike me with a wet strop, I should have said a blue belgian stone. I stand corrected.

Originally Posted by thebigspendur

Well strike me with a wet strop, I should have said a blue belgian stone. I stand corrected.

Buy me a beer next time I am in the US and we are even for that lesson.

Hoekie

This is odd... I was just getting on here to post some info on the Belgian stones when this came up.

After I got a lot of advice from here, I got some info from Howard over at http://www.theperfectedge.com and a lot of old timers too. [BTW, thanks for the tip on Howard. I gave you guys credit for sending me!] - But I am starting to see a group consensus about stones like the Norton’s VS the naturals, esp. the Belgians and that being - the naturals with the naturally embedded garnets cut much faster than the Norton’s.
The next question after that, logically, is "Okay, so its a little faster, is worth the money and is it "that" noticeable".
The answers I got were yes it IS noticeable and in addition, a lot of the older guys who are really into this said that the natural stones [get this] "tend to remove a lot less steel to get the edge" as compared to the man made stones that require more steel to be removed.

One 80+ year old guy I talked to, said that [its] like the difference between giving a knife to a 6 year old to carve a turkey as to a 40 year old...
Both will get the job done, but the older "carver" will cut less, waste less, and do a much better job. Hence the difference between the man made and the higher-grade stones like the Belgians. No one had an opinion on the Shapton Pros.
I suppose that this is where the added price justifies the stones. If you are removing less steel to put an edge on your $200.00 Dovo, thus making it last longer, well... herein lies the justification.
Plus, too, hands down, all tell you that the naturals are a once in a lifetime purchase. In addition, you will be "willing" them to very happy son and possible HIS child too!

I just remembered why I logged on, I have a question... Rich, you quoted Howard's price on the 3" inch thick stone... I ordered the 2". Is there a reason why I should get a 3" or do I need to call Howard back and change my order? AND ONE OTHER TOO... I plan on hitting this stone with a few very nice tactical knives... Should "you" reserve a stone for your straight, and straight ONLY?

While you can get the job done with a smaller stone, a larger stone will give the new honer enough space to fit the whole blade on the stone which can sure help a lot at getting an even honing.

X

Originally Posted by RichZ

Ok. I now have a question about honing.

I see that the blue corticule stone equates to the Norton 4000
and the yellow to the 8000 or maybe 12000.

Well the norton is noticably cheaper so why should I spend the extra $$$$. What am I missing here? The 3x8 Norton combo 4k/8k goes for $75 while the Belgium Corticule Yellow (3x8) go for about $175 Blue (3x8) go for about $70.
Now I know the expression "You get what you pay for" might apply but $75 vs. $245.

I hardly use my Norton anymore unless I'm doing a group of razors. It's just too messy and moves me into the bathroom or a utility sink instead of a bech or desk. One advantage of the coticule is that it just needs a little water and work up a little slurry, which is much neater. But it hardly justifies the expense.

The real reason to go for the coticule is that you really need something finer than an 8K to get the best edge. You could use a pasted strop, which is even convenient at a desk, so you don't really need the stone. You could also find a very fine barber hone. I have a few coticules which I got cheap on Ebay, and they're a pleasure to use, but in my opinion the expense isn't justified if you get another abrasive in the 12K range.

I have ended up using fine and ultrafine Spyderco hones instead of the Norton 4/8K. They work well dry and clean up easily. Once I get past them I have an assortment of barber hones and pasted strops up to .25 micron, all of which are convenient to use.