Thread: Recommendations on Friodur with a coticle?

Hello there - Now that I have the shaving part consistently under control, I would like to take the plunge and try to hone up a 7/8 Friodur that I recently received. I have limited supplies including i) combination BBW/coticle, ii) barber hone, and iii) Cr2O3 (0.3u) and Fe2O3 (0.1u) pasted balsa.

The bevel looks real decent with a uniform width and scratch pattern and no evidence of microchipping that I can see using a loupe and a Radio Shack special (~60x). Shaves arm hair with some pressure on the blade.

The plan:
Test bevel with magic marker and a few passes on the BBW in water. From there, if things look OK, work on the BBW/water and then move up to the coti w/slurry (or water to be determined), and then possibly to the barber hone and the pasted strop. If the bevel needs more work, I'll try to improve it with the BBW or with the coti/slurry method a la Bart. My inclination is to stay more simple/conventional for now, staying with the BBW for the bevel and the coti/water to improve the edge.

Questions:
I don't have much of a feel for the coticle yet. How does a coti w/slurry compare to a ~4K BBW? Does it make sense to go straight to the coti w/slurry after I'm happy with the bevel? Should I even dispense with all this and try Bart's unicot or dulicot method?

I've read a lot about all this, but it would be good to get some distilled information/suggestions here, if possible.
Thanks for any info or recommendations.

Steve

After examing the edge under the magnification I would try popping arm hairs with it without touching the skin. Also the TPT which if you aren't familiar with what a sharp blade will feel like you can learn from a new DE blade if you have any. If the edge won't shave arm hair or feel keen with a TPT I try a TNT. If it grabs well fot the length of the blade I would maybe do some laps on the bbw with slurry using the TPT to check the progress along with seeing if it would pop hair. Then the coticule with water only to finish still using the TPT and the arm hair popping. If it was dull with the TNT I would look to get a 1k naniwa or norton. If you'd rather not get the 1k stone you know where to find Bart's method for doing it all with the coticule.

I haven't used much these hones for some time but, the BBW isn't a coticule with bigger garnets, as far as sharpening razors is concerned. It is a completely different hone in terms of function.
So I'd go the conventional route and use coticule with slurry,then BBW with slurry and then coticule with water. Or skip the BBW altogether for now.

All 4-5 of the friodurs like yours that I had new needed proper bevel. I'll see if I can find a good resolution photograph for you.

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

After examing the edge under the magnification I would try popping arm hairs with it without touching the skin. Also the TPT which if you aren't familiar with what a sharp blade will feel like you can learn from a new DE blade if you have any. If the edge won't shave arm hair or feel keen with a TPT I try a TNT. If it grabs well fot the length of the blade I would maybe do some laps on the bbw with slurry using the TPT to check the progress along with seeing if it would pop hair. Then the coticule with water only to finish still using the TPT and the arm hair popping. If it was dull with the TNT I would look to get a 1k naniwa or norton. If you'd rather not get the 1k stone you know where to find Bart's method for doing it all with the coticule.

JimmyHAD - tell you the truth, I've had a couple of razors honed by some really distinguished guys that do not cut floating arm hair-and forget about the HHT. I must have strong hair or something. But in spite of that, these razors shave great! So the interactive part, which I'm sure is the most important, is tough. The best way I can judge what is going on is by shaving. The TPT is useful, but only when the edge is 'sticky'; as it becomes more refined, it gets smooth and it's hard to tell what's happening without shaving.

But what you say makes perfect sense. The main thing I'm getting from you is that i) I will likely need to go back to the BBW if it's not shaving well enough right out of the gate, and ii) stick with the coti w/water to refine things. I'm hoping I can get by with the BBW. If not, a Naniwa 1K is the next purchase.

Originally Posted by gugi

I haven't used much these hones for some time but, the BBW isn't a coticule with bigger garnets, as far as sharpening razors is concerned. It is a completely different hone in terms of function.
So I'd go the conventional route and use coticule with slurry,then BBW with slurry and then coticule with water. Or skip the BBW altogether for now.

All 4-5 of the friodurs like yours that I had new needed proper bevel. I'll see if I can find a good resolution photograph for you.

Gugi - the stone I have is actually a natural combination stone with the BBW wallrock intruded by a coticle vein. In terms of function, I thought the BBW is supposed to be on the order of ~4K or so (depending...) and the coti ~8K. So, you're saying that the coti with a slurry raised is even more aggressive than the BBW? I can see where this is all about getting to know how this stone works.

Anyway, I'll see what I can see as I go. If I can bring things up with what I've got, then great. If I need to drop back to a 1K and set the bevel, then that will be my next purchase.

Thanks very much for the feedback.

Grit sizes are moot when it comes to natural hones. A Coticule with slurry can be used for everything from setting a bevel in reasonable time to finishing an edge. Mind you, 'can', as in 'some very experienced people can do it'. The BBW is actually of little use when you use the methods described on coticule.be.

Well... You have 2 options, I think.

1) If you have a bevel setter(1kish stone), you can set the bevel. Then use the method in the wiki using a BBW and coticule.

2) Use Barts "dilucot" or "unicot" method.


Every coticule behaves differently though, so you will have to do some experimentation to find the sweet spot.

While learning to hone using a Coticule, I'd recommend the Unicot method. It's much easier to master, but the edge is indiscernible from the dilucot edge IME. Best of luck with your journey

Originally Posted by BeBerlin

Grit sizes are moot when it comes to natural hones. A Coticule with slurry can be used for everything from setting a bevel in reasonable time to finishing an edge. Mind you, 'can', as in 'some very experienced people can do it'. The BBW is actually of little use when you use the methods described on coticule.be.

Yeah - sure seems that way.

Originally Posted by Slartibartfast

Well... You have 2 options, I think.

1) If you have a bevel setter(1kish stone), you can set the bevel. Then use the method in the wiki using a BBW and coticule.

2) Use Barts "dilucot" or "unicot" method.


Every coticule behaves differently though, so you will have to do some experimentation to find the sweet spot.

I think for now, I'll try to refine whatever bevel I have with the BBW/slurry and then go to the coti/water. See how it works - reevaluate after that and decide whether to pursue a 1K or go with Bart's methods. Like I said, the existing bevel doesn't look all that bad right now, so who knows...?

Thanks all.
Steve

The 7/8 Friodur's are a fickle, difficult to hone razor. IMHO, the spine is not thick enough to give a proper angle to the bevel for that width of blade.
My solution has been to apply 2 layers of black electrical tape on the spine. This increases the angle and makes for easier honing via a bevel with a smaller width. Hope this makes sense.

Just my $.02,

Originally Posted by Woodash

JimmyHAD - tell you the truth, I've had a couple of razors honed by some really distinguished guys that do not cut floating arm hair-and forget about the HHT.

Woodash,

I seem to remember, from some time ago, making this same claim to JimmyHAD. I believe his response was that it truly doesn't matter as long as the razor passes YOUR shave test. I'm still greatful to Jimmy for that comment, as it went a long way to comfort my then newb mind. YMMTV (Your mileage may truly vary)!

BTW, and FWIW - I have had many pro-honed razors that will not pass the HHT or cut floating arm hairs before being stropped. Doesn't necessarily mean your razor isn't shave ready