Thread: Honing at the high end grits

I guess what you are experiencing is the lerning curve.
I used to (and sometimes still) do not get an edge to be as perfect as I want it to, without a clue what happened.
Nowadays I just start over, or have the skillset to determine what to do to fix it.

I found out that confidence in what you do is crucial.
You have got to feel comfortable.
This is something that comes with time and practice.
So what will probably be the best advice for you is:
Keep at it, practice more and be confident about your ability to learn.

To add another advice to these (great ones) already given,
try to determine where the problem lies. What happens when you hit the 8k after the 4k? Does the edge get more smooth, do arm hairs shave more easily? Is HHT possible?
And is this smoothenes, or keenes comprimised after you strop?

This way you might be able to make out what you have to work on;
honing skills or stropping skills.

And you should really try some diamond spray on felt. I recommend 1µm,
because of its cutting strength is able to mask little imperfections that have occured while honing.
Maybe this will do the trick until your skill has improved

Originally Posted by nun2sharp

You mentioned in the first post that the blade was sharp in only one place, have you checked the blade to see if it is warped and are you keeping an even contact of blade to stone with an equal pressure(possibly rocking the blade)?

I should clarify. When the blade was sharp only in one place; it will only peel a hair during the HHT in one place. At all previous levels (1k and 4k) the entire blade performed uniformly in a passing fashion.

The blade doesn't appear to have a smile, but when doing the magic marker test, the toe and heel don't get much love; on both sides of the razor. I'm therefore using rolling X's; so yes, there is some rocking of the blade occuring because of the stroke.

I guess it's all part of the learning curve as I would at least expect the middle of the blade to be acceptably sharp. I wouls also expect the ends needing more work which will happen with extended practice of the rolling x stroke.

I'll keep at it and maybe try some Crox on an extra strop I have. Does it matter if I put it on the linen or leather side of the extra strop? Is one better than the other?

Where to apply your honing compound is a thing of personal preference.
You can even try putting it on newspaper (with a bit of cushion) if you want to keep your spare strop

Originally Posted by tmac123

I should clarify. When the blade was sharp only in one place; it will only peel a hair during the HHT in one place. At all previous levels (1k and 4k) the entire blade performed uniformly in a passing fashion.

Peeling the hair usually denotes low keeness for me. Close but no cigar
Maybe the 1-4k stage is passing due to a "toothy" edge rather than a sharp one.
Also, one thing you may need to consider is something Nun2sharp said, your pressure. Are you reducing your pressure as you reach the finishing stages ? In the endgame you could wreck an edge if you bear down on it a bit too hard.

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Honing is a 4 step process

It really doesn't matter how those steps are taken, or what they are taken with, you have to climb the honing ladder in this order...

Step 1. Set the bevel, it has to be sharp from toe to heel, not sorta sharp, not pretty much there, if the bevel isn't set correctly you are just wasting time... the edge should be about 90% there before you leave this first step

Step 2. Sharpen the razor, the edge is going to get within 98% of as sharp as it can possibly get in this step

Step 3. Polish the edge, the edge is going to get very smooth now and barely any sharper, but this is where most of the shaving comfort comes from.. The edge should be at 99% now

Step 4. The Finisher, could be a high grit stone, could be a paste, could be a good stropping, or a combination of all these things, but this step is all personal.. and the last 1% is right here

If you don't take all 4 steps, in that order, you will not make it to a shave ready edge...If you try and skip a step, or rush a step you will fall...


Of course this is JMHO of how honing works

Glen,

Best synopsis of what the process steps are and what the goals of the steps should be I've heard so far - thanks.

David

The hardest thing for me to learn was that 5 - 10 light X strokes actually does something at a straight razor level that it would never do for another type of cutting edge - say a knife for instance.

I had a couple of razors that just weren't up to snuff. 5 X strokes on my 8k followed by 5 X strokes on my 12k and they shaved incredible.

I think I have read from Lynn and others to start at the highest grit first and see if you can get the razor shave ready. You can alway take more metal off but - well you know the rest of the saying.

Originally Posted by nun2sharp

You mentioned in the first post that the blade was sharp in only one place, have you checked the blade to see if it is warped and are you keeping an even contact of blade to stone with an equal pressure(possibly rocking the blade)?

My thoughts as a beginner at honing razors is to take all the above advice. Use a marker pen on the edge to see if you're getting an even hone line.


Mick

Originally Posted by onimaru55

Peeling the hair usually denotes low keeness for me. Close but no cigar
Maybe the 1-4k stage is passing due to a "toothy" edge rather than a sharp one.
Also, one thing you may need to consider is something Nun2sharp said, your pressure. Are you reducing your pressure as you reach the finishing stages ? In the endgame you could wreck an edge if you bear down on it a bit too hard.

After Lynn's comment about only needing possibly 5-15 strokes on the 8k, I hit the 15 stroke mark.

I also made sure that the pressure was extremely light. The problem I may be having is with pressure and the rolling X. I think I'm doing ok, but sometimes when I roll at the end to hit the toe, I'm not even sure if I'm hitting the edge properly. And I'm almost positive I'm hitting the heel with too much pressure, but that part isn't as necessary as the toe for how I shave.

Overall, I think my technique is good enough on a razor with no need for rolling. The fact that the toe and heel need that roll is probably what's screwing me up the worst.

I guess I just need more practice. Also, using the Crox on my extra strop my help a ton. I guess I'll find somewhere to pick some up at and start with it on the linen, then move to the leather if need be.

Just a double check, but Crox is something you can really only buy online right? I wouldn't think hardware stores would carry it.

+1 on the long list of quality answers above...

Do review and perhaps try a "pyramid" honing method.
There are a couple of things well covered by others
above but "overhoning" can do "odd" things to an edge
and a "pyramid" honing technique does not seem to
overhone.... and was the first "recipe" that gave me
a consistent good shave. In the process it let me feel the changes
that some call feedback and that in turn got me the best
edge.

+1 on the bevel setting, this is key and make sure spine and edge are flat on the stone before coming off the 1 k or what ever bevel setting method adopted. Keeping the edge and spine flat throughout the stroke with minimal/zero pressure is paramount. I've read, re read and followed a ton of Lynn on the wiki and this has stood me in good stead.
Remember we're always chasing down a wire edge, so the only reliable test is your face, patience is required here with minimal time on the stone. A pyramid system for me seems to avoid over honing.