Thread: How can some people shave off a 12K and like it?

Originally Posted by Bruno

That is also why imo a pasted strop is a crutch, and will hinder progress in the hands of a newbie. They round the bevel dues to the sag, and thus make the edge sharper. If the edge already had perfect bevels, the strop would not make any difference.

First learn to shave off an 8K stone. Unless you can do that, there is no point in investing more money in higher grit thinks.

I agree with Bruno on the pasted strop being a crutch in the hands of a newbie. That is not to say that it is not a useful adjunct to the hones in the hand of an expert honer. I was taught to test shave at the 8k level to ascertain whether my honing was adequate to move on to a higher grit. I have made using the stones followed by the untreated strop the default method I use to get my razors shave ready. It has taken me many, many razors and a couple of years of doing it to get to a point where I feel that I know what I am doing with these things. For the first year + I went through the motions and sometimes I won and other times I lost without really knowing why. FWIW I have found that the 1961 barber manual excerpt that I frequently link to here is the method I rely on once I have set the bevel. Like any skill it takes a lot of practice to become proficient IME.

I didn't read all the posts, Sorry, Try a barber hone before you shave, 3-5 passes on it should keep your blade shave ready or in your case, a mini touch up... As far as not being able to shave off a 12k, it's your honing. Most can shave off an 8k, and you can definitely shave off a Coticule...
Any hone after 8k is just gravy.....

Richard, The Coticule is not your "Normal hone" IMHO...It's hard enough learning to hone properly, let alone, learning your Coticule. Each is different and slurry must be used in order to use if properly. I'd suggest a Norton 4/8k or Naniwa's 5 and 8k to learn.
Once you've mastered them, then play around with the Coticule...This is just my opinion....

Originally Posted by riooso

Thanks for the replies guys. I passed out at the keyboard last night so I couldn't read your replies till this morning.

I have received razors honed by many people that I am sure are very proficient at honing and to my standards there has only been one gentleman that sent me razors that only needed a "slight" touch-up and that was Robert Williams. I have sent razors out that I have sold and almost all have written back and expressed just how they loved the edge and asking how to duplicate it. I make sure that my bevel is very well set off a 1K and that it will easily cut hair before moving on.

I use scything, the angle of the blade is almost touching my skin (which I think is possible because of a very keen edge), and my prep is very good by most standards. I just have a bit of hair on each side of my chin that will defeat any razor that is not very, very sharp. I have used DE razors in the past and most blades last no more than 3 shaves and that is pushing it.

So..that leaves the "Princess and the pea" theory and that is going to take some real thought on my part. I will get out my Coticule and evaluate the shaves.

Thanks,
Richard

If you are getting comfortable shaves then why bother,,,

Sounds like yours is a finish (Smooth) issue not a sharp issue... I rather like your story, as a matter of fact... Too many people like to blame the sharp, and profess the greatness of certain stones...I have argued this for a long while, the whole time trying to explain sharp is easy, and not a part of the equation above 8k (given a properly honed edge)... Too many people have proved this with the low grits shaves, the "Sharp" is there at a quite low level..
Yours is the opposite, where you like the smoothness of the 30k (psst so do I) but this is not a sharp issue, you just like that finish... Why fight it, just accept that and go with it...

Great thread!
Summary of some very key points here:
-Like Glen says: Why fight it if you like a 12K+ polish on a razor, then by all means stay with it.
-1K @ bevel setting is the MOST important part of honing.
-If Sham (hi_bud_gl), Glen (gssixgun), or some of the other veterans make a recommendation on honing, I usually listen.
-No matter how perfectly a blade is honed, if the prep work isn't done, the shave will suffer.
-If it works for you, don't "fix" it. Just don't become stagnant in your ways so that you don't continue to learn...
Scott

Originally Posted by riooso

So..that leaves the "Princess and the pea" theory and that is going to take some real thought on my part. I will get out my Coticule and evaluate the shaves.

Thanks,
Richard

And it also leaves stropping to be evaluated. Also, there was a gentleman on these forums who swore he had a beard of iron and for months he kept trying to shave with a straight with problems similar to yours if I recollect. He finally tried shaving with an edge that was sharpened at between a 6k and 8k level and was finally pleased with his results.
I believe that was Josh Earl

This is one of the reasons we always say to start with a stone like an 8K or so and become competent with that before you move on to higher ones. Many here have shaved off a 4K and got reasonable results. When I started out all I had was the Norton 4K/8K and I was very happy with it. Even now I use either the Coticule or the Escher as my finisher even though I have others.

As far as how many shaves you get from a razor I find it depends on the razor. I have some I've been using for years without even needing a touch-up. In general 15-20 shaves and I can detect the comfort begins to deteriorate ever so slightly even though it still gives a BBS shave. I guess it depends on how tough a beard you have and how sensitive your face is. My beard is like wire.

Originally Posted by thebigspendur

. When I started out all I had was the Norton 4K/8K and I was very happy with it.

And you had to hone uphill both ways, on your knees through the snow...

Originally Posted by Nightblade

So I just bought a Naniwa12k and don't have alot of money right now.Question..can I get by with my current hone,and how many strokes should I do ? I just had both my blades pro honed.My dovo special is fine but I honed for the first time on my best quality,and I'm pretty sure I've dulled it.I just do four complete passes.But it's dull and I can't afford another stone.

Hmm a Naniwa12K hone...

I have a Na12K and love it...

Since you have a pro-honed blade try this.

First smoothly and methodically strop the blade.
First 20 on canvas then 30 on leather and see if
that recovers the edge.

Once or twice a month use your 12K hone first with
some circles (20, 5 flip, 5 flip, 5 flip, 5 flip)
then finish with 20 smooth normal honing strokes.
The Naniwa cuts quickly enough that you may
not need to resort to a combo hone like the
Norton 4/8K or the Naniwa 3/8K combo
to tidy up the bevel and edge.

Maintaining the edge on a regular schedule
so you do not get behind in the process can
let you rely on a singe fine hone like your Na12K.

A key is even and smooth hone strokes using consistent pressure.
Light pressure is good.

(20, 5 flip, 5 flip, 5 flip, 5 flip)

Huh?

Originally Posted by Utopian

(20, 5 flip, 5 flip, 5 flip, 5 flip)

Huh?

I'm guessing he means 20 strokes total, 5 on each side before flipping to the other. But I could be wrong.