Thread: Ace gets over the hump, well, kinda

I am experimenting with three layers only for the reason that I am trying to find a way to set a good bevel without "tall" sides, the sides being the distance from the edge to the end of the bevel. So far, mine seem to have been "taller" than the good ones that I have seen, and I am trying to find a way to make mine look more like those of the honemeisters.

As much as I am against breadknifing in principle, I have been doing that because going from three layers of tape to one or none and re-setting the bevel seems like an awful lot of work to take on. It seems like breadknifiing makes it quicker.

If I'm getting bevel edges that are too "tall" with three layers of tape, it is likely to get much worse with no layers, for the very reasons you detailed. Tonight I'm going to give two layers a shot at 220 and see if I can set a bevel without exerting any pressure. I tried that with 1K, but after three hours, more laps than I could possibly count, and three top layer tape replacements, it's hard to maintain paitence and not apply pressure.

Two comments, and one suggestion:

1. The width of the bevel (if it's flat, which it should be) depends on:

. . . the geometry of the blade -- thickness / width ratio, which determines the
. . . "included angle" of the bevel;

. . . the thickness of the blade at the base of the bevel.

It does _not_ depend on the skill of the honer.

2. Breadknifing may give a sense of satisfaction --

. . . That chip is gone!

but you'll have to remove just as much metal, during bevel-setting, as you would have removed without the breadknifing. It's the same total work, either way.

3. If you want to apply pressure during bevel-setting, put your fingers right on the bevel, not on the body of the blade. That minimizes the bending of the blade.

I agree with you -- on a coarse stone, with no pressure, it takes _forever_ to remove metal. But with light pressure, you'll make progress.

Charles

Yep, hang in there. I've been setting a bevel/honing past nicks on a blade I bought as part of a batch of renovation projects. It's a faux frameback with just the right amount of smile. I've worked on it for 3 or 4 evenings, on a DMT 325 and 650. I've got one layer of tape on the spine to prevent wear from the heavy grinding, but will remove it once I start honing on the 1000-grit stone. That's because I want the stropping plane to be the same as the honing plane.

I keep thinking it'll only be one more evening of work, but there's still a hint of the old bevel out at the very edge and a tiny chip that will go away with it. One of these evenings will be the final one.

It's a slow process, at least for mortals like us. I'm learning, as I go, that many honing projects take more than one sitting. I hope your own work is going better.

And thanks to both of you for your suggestions and support. I'm up early today to see if I can set another bevel, this time with non-deformed bevel sides. Stay tuned, although this could take all day. I'm starting at 80 grit, and know it's not recommended, but I want to see it what it'll do.

The saga continues: The honing job on the Clauss was a lot of fun, but it didn't turn out shave ready (Surprise, Surprise!).

After going 0 for 6 on the Clauss, I dug out an Army Special from Wilbert Cutlery in Chicago and figured a try with a different blade wouldn't be a bad idea. Not only are the scales cracked, but the blade turned out to have a considerable frown (it was probably concerned about what i would do to it) and perhaps a bit of a warp as well. I got a bevel set on it (honest guys, I really did) and went through the usual progression I've bored everyone with before. I did a little more in terms of laps on the .5 micron diamond spray on wool and the leather strop. I checked it on the HHT, and it failed like every other razor I've done. Just for comparison purposes, I got a Feather double edge blade I use in my Shavette and tried the HHT on that. It failed too, and I think that tells me how much the HHT will be trusted by me in the future. Tomorrow the Army Special takes on my civilian beard. Maybe if I yell "Ten Hut!" my whiskers will stand at attention and get whacked off, but at this point I'm not betting on it. Only time will tell.

I'm still not understanding how you can learn to hone a straight razor while comparing to a shavette. A shavette and a straight are different animals. Get a shave ready straight razor and learn to shave with it, and then you can start to learn how to hone a straight razor. HHT is nonsense. You only have the shave test to truely test a straight.

Originally Posted by jeffegg2

I'm still not understanding how you can learn to hone a straight razor while comparing to a shavette. A shavette and a straight are different animals. Get a shave ready straight razor and learn to shave with it, and then you can start to learn how to hone a straight razor. HHT is nonsense. You only have the shave test to truely test a straight.

I have plenty of shave ready straights. I don't think I need to know how to shave with a straight to be able to hone one. If I can shave with a Dovo Shavette and survive, I can certainly shave with a proper straight. I'm just trying to get my honing to the point where I can hone a blade and shave with it. Heck, I like doing things backwards.

Well, my shave with the Army Special was about what I expected, no cuts, no razor burn, and little loss of whiskers either. I hadn't expected much because the razor had issues from the start, a considerable frown and a warp to the point that the middle of the blade began the process off the stone. I thought I could hone through the latter issue but maybe not. I'll give it another go from 1K up tonight. I did finish up bloodlessly with my Shavette loaded with a Feather blade, so at least my technique is improving.

I hate to hog this thread, but there is not much in the way of competition. I finished the Army Special, and the blade warp continues to be a problem. In addition to that, a pit near the edge produced in the edge what another member has referred to as Devil's Spit, so now I have a little micro-chip that appeared out of nowhere. The middle of the blade, the area of the frown and warp, has a bevel and an edge, but because the steel there isn't meeting the hones as well as the outer areas, I don't expect much from the shave tomorrow. I think the Army Special is begging for a breadknifing, and depending on the shave quality tomorrow, it just may get its wish.

Well, it's your thread to hog, after all.

You sound like a glutton for punishment. Honing is one thing, restoring is another. If you want to see if you're good at honing, quit messing with such difficult blades. If you have an extra shave-ready blade, just backtrack on it. Start at your 1k stone, reset the bevel, then go from there. If you find a microchip again there might be something bad in your hones.

I don't remember if anyone's asked--have you beveled all your hone edges?

Good luck.

Originally Posted by roughkype

Well, it's your thread to hog, after all.

You sound like a glutton for punishment. Honing is one thing, restoring is another. If you want to see if you're good at honing, quit messing with such difficult blades. If you have an extra shave-ready blade, just backtrack on it. Start at your 1k stone, reset the bevel, then go from there. If you find a microchip again there might be something bad in your hones.

I don't remember if anyone's asked--have you beveled all your hone edges?

Good luck.

I'm not worrying about whether I'm boring people here, Roughkype, because my sense is that nobody else is even reading it.

I'm not punishing myself at all. I like doing this stuff. I just wish the results were better. The Army Special is quite a dog. I considered bringing it to work and breadknifing it on the sidewalk out front. I've got quite a bit of warp to go through.

On the plus side:

I have all the stones I need.
I've read all the Wikis, watched all the videos.
I've chamfered all my stones.
I've lapped them prior to and post use.
I soak the crap out of them, except for the 8K and the 12K
My technique is getting better, but not good enough.
I haven't nicked my strop.
I haven't complained about my brand new shave ready razor.
I haven't cut myself shaving because the blade's so dull.

On the negative side:

My stropping sucks.
I get no draw on my SRD modular paddle.
I think my Diamond paste might be cubic zirconium.
I'm wearing band aids on two fingers from stone handling.
My right shoulder is starting to ache from all the strokes.
My wife is getting ****ed.

I could take any one of a number of blades I have that are shave ready
or reputed to be, one even done by the man hisself, and work on it. But I've chosen to go this way, and I ain't backing down. If I can't make a lesser blade shave ready, I'm certainly not going to do a "newbie" on a Hart Steel, W & B, or Henckels. For now, all I can do is imagine how nice it might be to shave with one of these instead of a Shavette loaded with a Feather blade. I have a bunch of Ebay specials on the way. Maybe one of them will have a straight blade and my technique will improve by the time they get here. That imagination motivates me.