Thread: Ace gets over the hump, well, kinda

I've been limping to the finish line with a Dovo Shavette, and during the past week I've been attempting to "hone up" a Clauss hollow ground in order to shave with a proper straight. I've now been through three separate bevel resets and honing progressions using a 1K, 4K, 8K, all Nortons, and a 12K Naniwa SS, followed by work on the SRD Modular Paddle with .5 Diamond Spray, and then on to the Premium I leather strop.

I've been posting on this in the 'Honing' section, but I've not been getting much feedback there, got tired of responding to my own posts, so here I am with a few questions:

First, the third of the three progressions was done with three layers of tape. I thought that three layers might give me a better shot at an honest bevel. It seems to have worked, because I was able to shave with it this morning. I was able to hear that "buttering toast' sound I have heard about and whiskers were being cut. I did experience, though, that the blade seemed to 'tire' toward the end of the first pass, so I continued on with the Shavette. Questions:

1. After the 8K Norton, the blade had difficulty with arm hair. That's fine with me because I'm running out. Does it make sense that after 8K arm hair cutting wasn't the best yet it shaved pretty well at the end of the progression?

2. Now that I have a blade that is "almost there", what do I do? I could redo the whole process (I'm just working with a practice blade here, nothing special) or I could try to finish it up a little. So, where would a likely place to start be? Perhaps a pyramid with the 8K and 12K?

3. I like the Modular Paddle, but I get almost no draw at all with the leather. The fact that the paddle stays flat seems to limit draw. I have treated it with Neatsfoot Oil every day, but it still seems quite slick. I'm not sure, therefore, that my stropping is accomplishing anything.

The plus side of all this work is that my technique in honing and shaving seem to be coming into line. The work has been quite enjoyable, especially now when I can see some results.

Ideas anyone!

I think you may have challenges with bevel setting. Just my opinion, but a hollow ground razor should not require 3 layers of tape. The most you'd ever want to use is one, and only then if you're concerned about excessive hone-wear (which I believe you aren't from your description of the razor as a test-case).

Reset the bevel on your 1k without tape or with only one layer of electric tape. If you use tape, leave it on through the entire honing progression, until you get to the pasted strop. If the tape starts to wear away during honing, replace it with a fresh piece.

Any razor should shave arm hair off an 8k, so your problem is likely in the bevel-setting stage.

Hope this helps...

In an earlier post I think you said that you have a pro-honed razor to use. Have you compared your honing with the shave ready one that you have? That should tell you how far off you are and how far back down the honing process you have to go.

If I'm wrong about you having an alternative razor, I apologize. If you don't have a shave ready razor you should probably send one out for honing. You will save yourself much frustration by having a benchmark to measure your honing progress against.

+1 to Bill S! I didn't gain traction honing or shaving until I got a truly shave ready razor as a benchmark.

Good advice also on the tape. I've only used tape out of desperation, after spending weeks working on a wedge blade. I agree, the only reason to tape a hollow is to protect the spine.

I'm reluctant even to tape a stubborn wedge, because once the tape is gone your blade's contact points become the spine and the spineward edge of the bevel. The sharpened edge is not as well exposed to the leather when stropping.

Good luck and keep your touch light.

If a razor won't cut arm hair like a champ you are wasting your time shaving with it. Also the razor should be arm hair shaving just fine way before you get to the 8K. So, you have an issue with your honing and you need to find out what it is. Maybe the way you hold the razor or your stroke or pressure? Are you sure your hones are flat?

Thanks for the responses.

I do have some shave ready razors. I've compared my bevels to theirs and find that they are sharper (who would have guessed?) and that the bevels themselves are shorter (that is, the distance from the edge to the end of bevel is much less than on mine).

I'm guessing that I used too much pressure early on, and my latest attempt was much better, partly because I used tape. I use tape primarily to protect the spine. Although this Clauss is becoming a practice razor, I am treating it like I would a better piece of steel.

Now, if bevel-setting is my problem, what's the fix? When I move on from my 1K Norton, there seems to be a fine bevel under 10X magnification. There is no edge blunting, no wire edge, no rollover and the edge passes the TNT all along the blade. I am not interested in going through the progression without first establishing a proper bevel, but what else is there to do? Before I go to 4K, the 1K edge is passing the TNT and is quite sharp. I believe that is the sign that the bevel is good.

So what am I missing here? What can I do to get better?

Originally Posted by thebigspendur

If a razor won't cut arm hair like a champ you are wasting your time shaving with it. Also the razor should be arm hair shaving just fine way before you get to the 8K. So, you have an issue with your honing and you need to find out what it is. Maybe the way you hold the razor or your stroke or pressure? Are you sure your hones are flat?

sd

I think my hones are flat. I've only honed one razor three times on them, and they have been lapped before and after each time.

My technique is getting better, as is my pressure, but with a background of only three razors honed, I cannot claim it is perfect or even good at this point. All I can do is re-visit the Wiki and check out the honing videos once again.

There's not much I can do with arm hair anymore. It's mostly gone. Any comments on the strop, stropping?

I read in your op that you apply neetsfoot oil everyday, or something like that. That's way overdoing it. It's not going to help your situation. Honestly, if you want more draw, buy a Latigo strop or something like it. I don't think stropping is your problem, I'm with the others, and think it's your bevel. Try one layer of tape, take your time, use moderate pressure. Check it with a Jewler's loupe if you have one, if not buy one, they're cheap.
It'll help. I can pop arm hair with a 1k bevel setter. Once your bevel is set properly, the rest is gravy. After that, just use the weight of the razor, no more....

Originally Posted by zib

I read in your op that you apply neetsfoot oil everyday, or something like that. That's way overdoing it. It's not going to help your situation. Honestly, if you want more draw, buy a Latigo strop or something like it. I don't think stropping is your problem, I'm with the others, and think it's your bevel. Try one layer of tape, take your time, use moderate pressure. Check it with a Jewler's loupe if you have one, if not buy one, they're cheap.
It'll help. I can pop arm hair with a 1k bevel setter. Once your bevel is set properly, the rest is gravy. After that, just use the weight of the razor, no more....

Appreciate the advice and will work on another bevel tonight. I do have a jeweler's loupe and have checked my bevel at each stage. After 1K (and I referred to the blade passing the TNT at that point), the bevel seemed straight and sharp. I'm not sure what kind of improvement I can look for in my bevel or the edge. When I'm done with 1K my edge looks like V .

Should I be looking for some subtle nuance I'm missing? If so, please point that out and I'll pursue it.

I think most people use the pyramid method on their 4k/8k or equivalent grits. I haven't heard of anyone using a pyramid between 8k and 12k, but maybe they do. In general, it takes more time to remove metal on a finer grit, so you may need more laps on the 12k than you're using.

I think the path to that nice narrow bevel is a very light touch; as everyone says, just the weight of the blade on the stone. If your bevel is wider, especially with a taped spine, that probably means your blade is flexing toward the stone as you hone it.

I have not perfected that light touch yet myself; I was amazed at the narrowness of the first pro-honed blade I received.

If a razor has a lot of hone wear on the spine, it may not be possible to get that original narrow bevel but it's best to work with the metal that's there, since the spine and the honed edge are your contact points when stropping. The spine is the razor's built-in honing guide.

Good luck and best wishes.