Thread: Trouble finishing w quality J-nats

I try to explain with my poor English

First of naturals is not slow people just come of synthetic to soon, slow finisher means very fine finisher !

Nakayama Marukas come medium hardness or soft ! If you have very hard Nakayama Maruka it will cost you over 5k USD. They are to Rare and impossible to get ! I have one and still it is not as hard as Ozuku or Shoubu.

Softer stones need to be worked with mod and will be slower to achieve finer finish because they release bigger particles.

Flattening of hones is very very important !! And flattening them right ! The best method is flatten with another Natural !

Do not use Atoma or DMT to make slurry on your stone !!! That is confirmed by many stone sellers in Japan and Iwasaki him self !

Clean aria when you hone on super fine stones is very very important too make sure there is no dust or any other particles

When you get your hone to know 5 min of honing will be enough to get you razor sharp.

Naturals is very easy to overhone the razor and make it dull.


Hope it helps happy honing

Followed what I learned in the previous posts. I lapped both non-kanji surfaces w 400 then 800 wet/dry. Then finished by lapping them against each other (both approx the same size). Then did about 50 passes on the Kiita. The Wadsworth and Sons (Solingen made! -- that seems wrong). Got a good HHT after stropping. I'll shave with it tomorrow and post the results.

BTW, my Nakayamas seem pretty hard to me. Heavy thumbnail pressure leaves no trace whatsoever. Then again, they did lap pretty quickly (maybe 10 minutes each). Any other ways to determine? They do not slurry at all when using just water.

Anyway, thanks again to all who took their time to help me.

Originally Posted by maxim207

Flattening of hones is very very important !! And flattening them right ! The best method is flatten with another Natural !

Do not use Atoma or DMT to make slurry on your stone !!! That is confirmed by many stone sellers in Japan and Iwasaki him self !

I hate to disagree but that never stopped me before...

Don't confuse Western razors with everything else, when you are honing everything else including Kamisori, I would agree with you, as the pressure is quite different and allows for the breakdown of the slurry...
Honing western razors this is simply not true, the pressure is much much much lighter or should be, and doesn't allow for the breakdown of the slurry...
As you must know it is the friable effect of the slurry that creates the finest edges on "most" of the Japanese naturals...

Now there are ways around this such as leaving the dried slurry on the stone after use but that poses other problems..
Using a DMT 325 OR 600 to raise a slurry allows for the plate to do much of the work before the Western razor touches the slurry..

Now all that I just wrote is a moot point if you are simply using your stone as a base to use a progression of Nagura and you are "honing" from start to finish on one stone, but if you are using that expensive finisher as a finisher, then this does come into effect...

Now you can believe what you please and use your stone as you chose but I think maybe you should try what I am saying on one or two of your stones before you discount it...

Originally Posted by gssixgun

I hate to disagree but that never stopped me before...

Don't confuse Western razors with everything else, when you are honing everything else including Kamisori, I would agree with you, as the pressure is quite different and allows for the breakdown of the slurry...
Honing western razors this is simply not true, the pressure is much much much lighter or should be, and doesn't allow for the breakdown of the slurry...
As you must know it is the friable effect of the slurry that creates the finest edges on "most" of the Japanese naturals...

Now there are ways around this such as leaving the dried slurry on the stone after use but that poses other problems..
Using a DMT 325 OR 600 to raise a slurry allows for the plate to do much of the work before the Western razor touches the slurry..

Now all that I just wrote is a moot point if you are simply using your stone as a base to use a progression of Nagura and you are "honing" from start to finish on one stone, but if you are using that expensive finisher as a finisher, then this does come into effect...

Now you can believe what you please and use your stone as you chose but I think maybe you should try what I am saying on one or two of your stones before you discount it...

I disagree on that. I do primely shave and hone with western razors.
And i used Dmt and Atoma before, not just on one or two stones

Kamisori do not require such hard stone as Western razors because they brake down particles much faster and they have swarf from soft steel that is used as polishing powder too.

DMT and Atoma make bigger scratches in stone it self then Tomo nagura will !
And it will make stone to relive bigger particles from the stone it self.
the smoother the service on the stone the less particles it will relive.
Because Japanese Naturals is not the grits but flacks and flacks brake down in thickness and not in size. That will mean that Atoma or DMT will destroy flacks in size and make thickness of the flacks bigger and make stone coarser !

I did try it on 100 or more Naturals stones so you dont have to convince me

Originally Posted by maxim207

I disagree on that. I do primely shave and hone with western razors.
And i used Dmt and Atoma before, not just on one or two stones

Kamisori do not require such hard stone as Western razors because they brake down particles much faster and they have swarf from soft steel that is used as polishing powder too. We agree

DMT and Atoma make bigger scratches in stone it self then Tomo nagura will ! You are talking only one thing here
And it will make stone to relive bigger particles from the stone it self. We disagree
the smoother the service on the stone the less particles it will relive. HUH ???
Because Japanese Naturals is not the grits but flacks and flacks brake down in thickness and not in size. That will mean that Atoma or DMT will destroy flacks in size and make thickness of the flacks bigger and make stone coarser ! Sorry but that came out as a contradiction, I think we actually agree here but I am not quite sure

I did try it on 100 or more Naturals stones so you don't have to convince me

I guess you know everything already then, So no matter what I try and explain, we will have to agree to disagree...

Main thing is if it works for you, you have to go with it
Nothing is wrong or right if its work !

Originally Posted by maxim207

Mane thing is if it works for you, you have to go with it
Nothing is wrong or right if its work !

And that we totally agree on

This is why I love this place. Two guys who are confinent in their skills, knowledge, & themselves...but also gentlemanly & wise enough to accept that what works for someone else may not work for another.

Thanks guys...

Shaved with the Wadsworth & Son this AM. The equal of any razor in my collection! Thanks everyone.

Originally Posted by pcb01

Shaved with the Wadsworth & Son this AM. The equal of any razor in my collection! Thanks everyone.

That is all matter .Enjoy