Thread: How sharp can you get without a set bevel?

Originally Posted by Assym

....snip.... I may just ride down to Lee Valley and pick up a Norton 4k/8k instead of new film.
...snip....

The Norton 4k/8k hone is a work horse.
It will do good things for you for a long time.

The Norton is much cheaper and better in the long run than lapping film. Maybe you can use the 0.5 film to finish after the 8k side.

Originally Posted by jeness

The Norton is much cheaper and better in the long run than lapping film. Maybe you can use the 0.5 film to finish after the 8k side.

+1

If you only have one razor there is one answer.
If you have half a dozen+ there is another answer.

The most satisfactory answer for most of the one or two
razor house is to send the blade out to a honemaster.
A honemaster will have a full range of hones and
experiences to bring almost any blade up to snuff.

I have found that film does fill a gap for those
that have knife sharpening tools and need to
take an edge or two to shave-able. At least
until such time that better kit is found.

A Norton 4k/8k or a Naniwa Super Stone 3k/8k Grit Combo Stone
is a good start.

Originally Posted by niftyshaving

+1

If you only have one razor there is one answer.
If you have half a dozen+ there is another answer.

The most satisfactory answer for most of the one or two
razor house is to send the blade out to a honemaster.
A honemaster will have a full range of hones and
experiences to bring almost any blade up to snuff.

I have found that film does fill a gap for those
that have knife sharpening tools and need to
take an edge or two to shave-able. At least
until such time that better kit is found.

A Norton 4k/8k or a Naniwa Super Stone 3k/8k Grit Combo Stone
is a good start.

Thanks guys. I picked up the Norton yesterday and a marble tile to lap it for only 3 bucks, since it had a corner broken off. Soon I'll try to lap it into shape.

Using the 3M film in lieu of a stone was an experiment, I'd picked up three old razors for spare change and if I'd gotten it to work I would've had a nice shaving set for a fraction the cost of a stone. As soon as I ran into trouble I knew I'd probably end up wasting money if I stuck with it. Plus I picked up more razors. I want to do some restoration and keep collecting.

An uncle passed along three Rolls Razors to me as well, I'm thinking of trying the Norton out on those (dull) blades before my straights. Since the Rolls blades are simple and even, I think I can avoid worrying about my stroke technique and focus on grit progression, sharpness tests and stone prep at first.

Originally Posted by Assym

Thanks guys. I picked up the Norton yesterday and a marble tile to lap it for only 3 bucks, since it had a corner broken off. Soon I'll try to lap it into shape.

....snip....
An uncle passed along three Rolls Razors to me as well, I'm thinking of trying the Norton out on those (dull) blades before my straights. Since the Rolls blades are simple and even, I think I can avoid worrying about my stroke technique and focus on grit progression, sharpness tests and stone prep at first.

Rolls blades are slightly different animals...
What will work on a Rolls is not going to be a technique
that works well for straight razors.

You can try stuff.... just do not mix
these two types of razors in the same post
except for the common bit of "latherin".

*Update*

I finally lapped and tried the Norton. Razor's still not getting sharp.

Lapped with 120, 220, then 400 grit sandpaper (on marble) for the 4k, which is now smooth to the touch with a very slight abrasive feel on the razor. Went up to 800 grit on the 8k side, which feel silky smooth. They're flat enough to past the grid test and create lots of suction if I put the stone down on the wet marble. Lapped off less than a 32nd of an inch from each side.

The blade was off the 1k equivalent film when I started, sharp enough to (technically) shave my face. I did an aggressive pyramid starting at 25, shave test: no go. Repeated the pyramid, still not sharp BUT definitely sharper than when I started. Tried a conservative pyramid, no noticeable improvement.

Tried again this morning. Lapped the stone, pyramid from 25, not sharp, another pyramid, still pulling, gave up and shaved my face.

This is where I was stuck with the film: noticeably sharper than the point at which it starts to cut whiskers, but nowhere close to smooth.

Originally Posted by Assym

*Update*

This is where I was stuck with the film: noticeably sharper than the point at which it starts to cut whiskers, but nowhere close to smooth.

When this happened to me, I used a pasted strop with CrOxide. It improved the edge from "painful" to "shaveable".

That's a kludge, and I don't like relying on it. I think the real answer is to improve my technique on the 8K stone, till I can get a shave-ready edge off it.

Charles

Small step forward: after a week away from the straight I tried giving it a very small pyramid (something like 3/2, 2/3, 1/3, 1/4) with a layer of tape on to work just the end of the bevel I got the blade much sharper. Still pulls except in the easiest spots, but I could hold the razor much more lightly and let it glide a bit. I'm not sure if I should stick to the 8k now or if I still need a few strokes on the 4k. Trying my best to stick to the "less is more" rule.

*Edit: I can now clearly see the polished second bevel (from adding the tape) with my 4x eyepiece, but a few tiny chips show up at 50x. Not many, but I'll keep using the 4k until those are all gone.

I also had the best lather I've made, by far, and I've been using soap and a brush since long before I got a straight. That could've made the razor seem sharper, but I didn't notice much change later on when the lather was getting dry.

Second update: more improvement

After a few more days of growing my whiskers out I took the blade back to the 4k. I could just BARELY see a glint of light from the largest chip through my 4x magnifier, and only because I knew where to find it. It took a lot longer to get that chip out than I thought it would, but I started adding strokes from the 8k as it got smaller. I can tell that I'm introducing new microchips as I go along, I can see them at 50x if I shine a light up from behind the blade.

Shave tested nonetheless. Definitely smoother than before and a closer shave, especially on my neck and upper lip. Coupled with my newfound ability to make my puck of Williams "explode" I think I'm finally on the track to success. Thanks for all the help and advice you guys, pretty confident now.