Thread: Escher advice needed

I used an Escher for awhile and got good results (now I wish I didn't get rid of it). Before I hit the Escher, I made sure that I was at the sharpness level that I desired. Then I lightly slurried the Escher and back most of the slurry off with water, then I used light pressure with the razor. I would rinse my blade after about 5 x-strokes or so and would continue this for about 25-30 strokes. My intent was not to use the slurry to downgrade the grit but to act as a lubricate on the Escher. With plain water, I found that I would get minute skipping with the blade as the edge was polished. The very, very thin slurry mixture helped keep the blade on the stone, and it polished nicely. Most Eschers won't set or even sharpen the blade effectively; they are better used as polishers, if you choose not to use a slurry.

True.

I can't express how important it is to use the escher at maxium sharpness. You get better escher edges from going 8k--10k--coticule--japanese stone---finish on escher, than just 8k to escher, etc.

I agree with most of what Sham states, like the use of slurry. Not the hand balancing. It's too expensive to drop. I do however, hold it in my hand when I hone, close to counter or something. I've been using Escher's almost exclusively for some time now. I'm very pleased with the edges I get. Whatever works for you. I primarily use a Y/G 7x1.5. I normally raise a light slurry. I use a slurry stone I got from Mueller at Timber tools. That made a huge difference in the edges. I imagine you could raise one with sandpaper or a dmt, something like that. As far as stroke count, You can't really put a number on it. Is 100 too many for such a fine stone, probably not. I don't think it'll hurt anything, but I understand the logic behind it. Natural's vary from stone to stone, Escher's are pretty consistent, but there are still differences. I notice it my collection. Some are faster than others.

Each blade is different, but you can feel it, when you hone. Mueller claims, on his site, that you should not go from a Coticule to an Escher (last time I looked) I know many do. I have, but usually don't. I can easily shave off a Coticule edge, and leave it at that. I can come off pretty much any 8k and go to my Escher with a light slurry and get a nice smooth comfortable shaving edge. Now, these are naturals, and we know there can be differenes. YMMV.

I think some Escher's work better with water, and other's with slurry. You have to test your stone both ways, and see what gives you the best results. I have several, with instructions, some say to raise a slurry with the rubbing stone, other's say use just water.

In terms of strokes it is interesting to note in his barber manual, circa 1926, author A.B. Moler said that the German water hone, i.e. the Escher and related Thuringans, are ideal for beginners because they do not overhone no matter how many strokes are done. Here are two photos of the text, the first the 'one describing the author's assessment of the German water hone and the other the Belgian coticule.

True shave ready, light slurry to water and done...

I don't combine finishers, bevel - sharpen - polish - finish - strop - shave

The difference here is where you personally consider the razor "Truly Shave Ready" for me that comes at the 8k level... I can comfortably strop and shave without a doubt at that level, so anything after that is a finisher regardless of if is a Coticule, Escher, J-nat, Thuringen, CF, or my Chronik Liquid Silver super hone

Originally Posted by IsaacRN

... Now my question is in terms of finishing, what am I looking at stroke count wise more or less? I couldn't pass a HHT doing about 100 strokes off the escher, but after stropping it was passing what we call HHT 4 in coticule honing. Would you say 100 x strokes is overkill? The blade was shaving well before I even used the escher, so I know it had a decent edge.

I have similar experience w/ an edge going to a jnat lopping hairs like crazy, and after the jnat they don't - yet the shave is very satisfying. I know HHT is volatile both as a measure and as a topic, but it catches my attention that another stone produces similar result - lower hht that shaves well. Often after stropping, the edge lops hairs, but not with the vigor it did when coming off the Nani12. This puzzles me. 'Makes me wonder about edge attributes that HHT can't assess.

You won't be able to get the edge any better on a finisher unless you have a good sharp edge before you get to it. A while ago there was another member that had a problem due to a physical condition so I posted this: http://straightrazorpalace.com/honin...me-help-2.html Go to post 11. Get your edges as sharp as they can be then go to the Escher. I use just water and lots of strokes. Remember to take your time and be sure to ahve fun. There's nothing wrond with putting the razor down for a while and getting back to honing later.

When I use a Ch12K, Coticule or Escher/Thuringan with only water then I usually use 100 laps or so. It really depends on the condition of the edge before I begin.

About 2-3 years ago I tested the idea that a person could not over hone on a Ch12k, Coticule or Escher.
Guess what, I could over hone on all of them. It took between 400-600 laps to do so on each of them.

Anyone tried using a Escher with a slurry from a hard, fine Toma Nagura?

Originally Posted by randydance062449

When I use a Ch12K, Coticule or Escher/Thuringan with only water then I usually use 100 laps or so. It really depends on the condition of the edge before I begin.

About 2-3 years ago I tested the idea that a person could not over hone on a Ch12k, Coticule or Escher.
Guess what, I could over hone on all of them. It took between 400-600 laps to do so on each of them.

Anyone tried using a Escher with a slurry from a hard, fine Toma Nagura?

I am using my escher that way, the problem is that my Y/G is so soft, that I dont think that I get any slurry from my Ozuku tomonagura.

OK, a follow-up, covering the past week.

I shaved with my results finishing on the Escher, and was unhappy. It shaved, but not to near the level I was looking for. Being determined, next day I taped up my stubborn razor and started over my progression with a 1K Naniwa on up through the Escher. Unhappy again. Two days later, started over on the Naniwa 1K yet again, and this time got an edge I was happy with all the way through the progression (Naniwa 1K, Naniwa 5K, Norton 8K). Before I hit the Escher, I got the best edge I could get off the Norton 8K. I started with a light slurry on the Escher.

This time, I finally noticed serious draw on the Escher, which I hadn't before. It reminded me a little of a Shapton: a thick, oily draw. 20 strokes (10 with mild slurry and 10 diluted), extremely light pressure, with the stone on a stand on a table instead of my hand, and the edge is really good now. Way better than my first try. We'll see on the shave tomorrow.

Thanks all for the encouragement and tips. I'll report back how it goes.