Thread: Escher advice needed

I'd appreciate some advice on effectively using Escher stones as finishers.

I was fortunate to acquire a few Eschers over a year or two ago, when they were still expensive, but not yet out of reasonable reach. At the time, I was a much more consistent and effective honer than I am now, having dealt with carpal tunnel on and off for the past year. I can still get a good shaving edge with time and concentration, using coticules and other finishers.

But then and now, I have the same problem. I cannot seem to improve my edges using my Eschers as finishers. I have two yellow/greens and one small dark blue. I don't dismiss Eschers because I flat know better. Many honers I deeply respect get great results with their Eschers, and I've shaved with their results. I just can't manage to get them myself. But I've held onto those Eschers, in hopes of eventually learning to use them.

I start with either diamond plates or Naniwas for bevel setting. My main stone is the coticule after that, working through progressively thinning slurry levels to plain water, and I can always get a decent shaving edge. But when I move to the Escher, I can't seem to improve that edge, and often degrade it. I generally do fine when moving to a Japanese natural, Charnley, or Chinese 12K (all without slurry, just plain water). I also got good results with a Shapton 16K when I still had it.

My Eschers didn't come with a slurry stone. Is that what I'm missing? Can I move from a coticule to a plain-water Escher and get finisher benefit from it without slurry? Or should I work on building slurry using one of my other Eschers as a slurry stone?

Thanks

It has been so long ago that I sharpened on a coticule and finished on an escher that I really can't remember the details. Now the only finishers I have, other than coticules, which I rarely use, are eschers. I set bevels with a chosera 1k and sharpen/finish with norton 4/8. I do use a light slurry on the escher, usually Y/G , sometimes B/G. I dilute to clear water. I know that both Lynn Abrams and Tim Zowada have told me that they use clear water. I think the main thing I shoot for is to get it really good before I go to the Escher. If I do that I usually don't need to stay on the Escher too long to get good results. Kind of like the foundation thing. Sham used to say that going to the Escher before 12k was wasting rare and expensive stone. Anyway .... wish ya luck with it.

I echo some of Jimmy's statements. I to have paid attention to Sham's words. I make sure that the razor is shaving sharp and comfortably on the Naniwa 12k, first. Then I go back and begin with light slurry on my b/g escher, and dilute to water. I find that 10 strokes with light slurry, 10 with lighter slurry and 5-10 with clean water are currently producing edges that I'm happy with.

I'm glad this thread came up, because I've been thinking lately that it might be time for a bit more experimentation.

Thanks for this.

Sham has great advise on eschers on his site:
How to use YOUR ESCHER STONE. [Archive] - razorandstone

You have to use a little slurry and super light pressure to get the most from your escher. Also the higher in sharpness you go before the escher the better it works.

Thanks for the replies, and the link to Sham's video. I really like Sham's "hand balancing" of the stone to enforce a light touch, this trick never occurred to me before.

Focusing on one stubborn razor this evening for quite some time, I was able to make some progress. I first tried a thin slurry on the Escher, and still got nowhere. Then I backed up and spent more time on the coticule with a very diluted slurry, and got the edge in better shape. Took it back to the Escher with a thin slurry sequence and a very light touch, and was able to make some noticeable improvement in the edge. I won't know for sure until I try a shave in the morning, but this is an encouraging start.

good to see you back, tim!

I want to hijack this thread so to speak. I have been honing exclusively with coticules for about 6 months or so. I picked up a nice escher that is light gray this week. Now my question is in terms of finishing, what am I looking at stroke count wise more or less? I couldn't pass a HHT doing about 100 strokes off the escher, but after stropping it was passing what we call HHT 4 in coticule honing. Would you say 100 x strokes is overkill? The blade was shaving well before I even used the escher, so I know it had a decent edge.

Having been an "email student" of Sham for quite some time, I believe your key thought while using your escher should be the absolute lightest pressure you can possibliy achieve.

I balance my stone on a mostly used roll of electrical tape that is about 1.25 inches in diameter. This method has taught me what "no pressure" really is.

Jerry

I agree with the absolutely no pressure. In fact, with my coti and escher I use Sham's advice about 1/2 the stone on a hand. This method forces you to use absolutely no pressure.

Originally Posted by IsaacRN

I want to hijack this thread so to speak. I have been honing exclusively with coticules for about 6 months or so. I picked up a nice escher that is light gray this week. Now my question is in terms of finishing, what am I looking at stroke count wise more or less? I couldn't pass a HHT doing about 100 strokes off the escher, but after stropping it was passing what we call HHT 4 in coticule honing. Would you say 100 x strokes is overkill? The blade was shaving well before I even used the escher, so I know it had a decent edge.

IMO, 100 strokes on an escher is extreme overkill. I believe it was Sham who said something similar to "if you use more than 30-40 strokes on an escher, you're using it incorrectly, or your razor wasn't sharp enough". I don't want this to be a direct quote, but I seem to remember it from one of his vid's....the one where he's in front of the computer I think.

Secondly, the escher and the HHT do not hold hands. Unlike after honing on other stones, many razors will not pass the HHT when finished on the escher. Mine never do, but they shave like dreams.

Thirdly, this helps with the theory/proof, that it's not about the HHT at all, but rather about the shave test.