Thread: Problems for a beginning honer

Originally Posted by mgrewe

I read about the newspaper trick and was going to try it after I get consistently great shaves off the 8k. By the way, what do you put the newspaper on when stropping?

The thing is, you personally might NEED newspaper, or Chromium oxide, or diamond spray to get great shaves after the 8k. I've been doing this a year, and only recently have I been able to go straight from a coticule to a strop and get a great shave...MOST of the time. Sometimes I still need that extra help (diamond spray) to get the edge dialed in to shave readiness.

When I was newer to honing I believed I needed paste.

But now that I have been doing this awhile I find that paste can be nice, but but the 8K is a fine edge.

Which is why I advocate not messing with pastes and other finishers until you master whatever stone you use... Once you learn to maximize your 8K edge, and you will find your pasted edges are even better.

Agreed that you should be able to get a perfectly fine shaving edge off an 8k. But, if anybody just starting to hone their own razors has anything like my learning curve, it might take months (or for me, nearly a year) to really dial in an 8k edge to "shaving sharp." They might only be able to get edges that slightly pull, or pull more than slightly. Pastes make up for that lack of ability for a new learner. Pastes might keep a person in the hobby when lack of them might discourage them, having only the ability to attain an uncomfortable shave otherwise.

Im a beginning shaver, and honer as well. I'm only on my 7th shave. Needless to say, both my honing and shaving technique require work and experience. That said, I have gotten (recently) good shaves by dropping the spine against my face to the recommended one spine width. I've also managed to put a good edge on two razors (one from ebay, one that I inherited and had been neglected for decades - both on good condition but in need of bevel resets). I have always sharpened my own knives freehand, and I guess I find myself in the unique position of being more comfortable with honing than with shaving at this point. Not that I am an expert honer, but I do feel confident about getting a good smooth edge that can pass HHT all along the edge, whereas I am much less confident in my shaving skill.

I ran into the problem with not being able to get a good consistent edge from the 8k side as well. I do hope and intend to continue practicing until I can maximize this tool, but in the meantime, I see no good reason not to use other available tools to get me where I need to be - if only so I know that my occasional nicks come from bad technique, not a dull blade. I bought some 1 micron and 0.3 micron 3m PSA backed film and affixed them to glass blanks to stand in until I can afford a real finishing hone. I have been really happy with the ease that they have been able to take my 8k edge from marginal to passing the HHT test consistently. I also use chromium oxide on balsa to smooth everything out, and I feel that makes a huge difference in passing the HHT.

I guess, I feel that ideally, my razors would be able to pass the HHT straight off the 8k, but I seem to have noticed such a remarkable difference after using the finishing film and Crox compared to just the 8k, that I can't see why I would ever not use them.

One thing I did notice, on my first norton honed razor, I think I used too much pressure. It was a thin hollow ground razor, and I think this excess pressure ended up flexing the blade, and actually setting the bevel angle a little lower than what would naturally result from being totally flat with the spine. I didn't get a shave ready edge here, but after much frustration, I decided to move to the film. On the glass, I managed to keep much lighter pressure, and when I examining the edge under magnification, I noticed that the leading edge was polished, but the trailing edge of the bevel still retained the scratches from the 8k hone. almost like a microbevel using tape. Obviously not the best way to do things, but the end result was a very shavable edge. Wondering if anyone else has noticed this behavior when honing, and also wondering if inconsistent pressure could be the source of this posters issues, as well as my continued lack of success with the 8k?

Javast,

I would send a razor out or try to pick up a shave ready one on the cheaper end of the spectrum so you have something to compare to.

A little bit of pressure is not bad when doing a bevel set, but not knife honing pressure. I suck at knife sharpening, so I am not really sure how to describe it.

knowing how to sharpen a knife wont help much when it comes to razors might even take you longer to frist unlearn what you know abought knife sharpening.i have been putting edges on steel for 50 years plus, but razors now thats a whole new kettle of fish.the best way to think abought pressure i have found is that when setting the bevel, tork that blade with as much pressure as you would use to hold down a fly , not kill it but make it feel uncomfortable

I started out with a cheapo vintage (ugly, but servicable) from whipped dog. It was sharp and got me through my first two shaves before i decided to fix up my other two razors. Compared to the professionally honed version, my efforts have so far been comparable. My more recent shaves with my self honed razors have actually been better, but I attribute that to getting better at shaving, not sharpness. There is definitely a reason most threads in this forum suggest getting a pro to do your first razor - I can definitely see how having to learn honing and shaving at the same time makes it a challenge to know what is going wrong.

Like I saw, the razor honing thing is far from perfect, but I have actually been getting decent results, as compared to my professionally honed standard, which I feel pretty lucky about.

Thanks for the advice about the fly - it's really hard to describe in words, and that is just about the most descriptive phrase I have seen. I was definitely using a fair bit more pressure for bevel setting, so I will back off in the future.

Should I be seeing such a dramatic improvement in sharpness going from the 8k to the 1 micron film and balsa strop? Everyone here says the HHT should pass straight off the 8k - I'm definitely not there yet...

as long as you are getting good shaves dont be too concerned with the hht. i use it too but after honing 60 or so razors i have a good feel for when a razor is going to perform.with the balsa strop its not going to get sharper but smoother, that is easyer on your skin. sharp happens when you set the bevel from there you are looking for smooth, polish. i have a lot of finish hones to play with and when its shaving to my likeing off the hone. i strop on leather treated with Linde A, a lapidary polish 1/3 micron . after that the razor slides thru hairs with 0 resistance.mostly thou its the work you do on your bevel setter thats going to make or break your shave. it should shave your arm hair and pull and the cut some of the hair if you hold it 1/8 " off your arm . off the 8000 it should top your arm hair with little pulling. after that nothing more is needed, strop and shave. i use higher grit stones because i have them, same with the linde A. but just lately i shaved with my frist razor that was honed thru trial and err on arkansas hard and hard black stones and the shave was very good, a bit harsh but good shave.

I know you said not to worry too much about the HHT, but I do have one further question about it. Since I have been getting the HHT to pass extremely well off the strop, but inconsistently off the hone, and stropping does not sharpen the blade, does that mean that my razors could conceivably be shave ready off the hone - even without passing the HHT? I haven't tried yet, and have been reluctant to out of concern for my face...

only shaving will tell its the only test.but yes start with the aera under your sideburn if all gos well continue.if the razors skipping around or feels wrong STOP and strop.after honeing i give the razor a good 100 laps on the strop the frist 30 or so with the strop tight(maybe 5 lbs.) and a little presure,(fly killing) then ease up on the tention on the strop(1 lbs.) and presure.(fly traping) stroping helps keep a sharp blade sharp and smooth (confort) my normal stroping after that is 15 on linen and 30 on leather.