Thread: Problems for a beginning honer

I've been spending a lot of time the past couple weeks trying different techniques that I have read about to get my Dovo Best Quality 5/8 razor back to shave ready condition, but I cannot seem to get a comfortable shave and it has become frustrating. Any help on where I went wrong would be great. Here is my honing story.

I went about 5 months without sharpening after receiving my razor professionally honed so I figured I would start on the 4k side of my Norton (freshly lapped on a DMT d8c).

After practicing honing everyday for a week on an old, non used razor from my grandpa. After I felt I had the technique down I went to my Dovo. After 10 laps on the 4k, my edge seemed to become even duller. I did 10 more laps with not much improvement and decided to finish on the 8k, strop and shave, but it would hardly cut hairs.

I spent a fair amount of time on the 4k the next day just doing x strokes and after at least 100 laps (checking sharpness tests along the way), the edge only felt marginally sharp in one small spot. I decided to see if that would shave any better and again honed on the 8k, stropped, and shaved. Again it was uncomfortable and did not cut well.

I posted on B&B that I needed help, and I had some quick and great responses. Here is the thread http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthr...for-a-beginner

I tried half strokes, circles, circles with slurry, pressure, no pressure, killing the edge and starting from scratch, pyramids, ect. Nothing was getting me a sharp edge and the 4k still seemed to make the edge duller!

I then decided to take the blade to my dad's japanese synthetic 800 grit stone that he used for chisels, thinking that my bevel was not set correctly. I spent a fair amount of time there and my bevel greatly improved. The TNT at that level passed and so did the marker test. Also, at this time, I was getting an even, consistent stroke.

I took my razor then to my Norton 4k and after checking every 10 laps, my blade seemed to dull (although not as bad as before) and get only marginally shaper after many more laps. I did a pyramid, stropped, and shaved. The shave was much closer, although it was still uncomfortable and not as close as I know it should be.

I have spent a couple more days trying different ways to get my razor sharp and it has not gotten much better. I am at the point where I can get a relatively close shave, but there is tugging, pulling, and discomfort.

Any help would be fantastic. Thank you.

Mat

you might try stroping the snot out of that razor at this point, 150 or so laps with very light presure all in the x pattern. try make every lap the same, start in the same place and finish in the same place. then shave ,if the shave is still lacking try stroping on newspaper 50 or so laps and then leather.keep at it, go back to the stone (8000) if need be and strop.
hope this helps

I think one of the problems and this is common with new folks is that you are trying everything out there and there is a lot of information out there. The most important things in my opinion for the new guy are to learn to get to no pressure and to keep the blade flat on the stone. This takes a little practice. I would recommend just picking one method, like the pyramid or the circles or the X strokes and just work with that one until you get a razor shaving nicely. It sounds like you are close now off the 8K Norton, so trying to dial in would be good. Try just a 1-3, 1-5 pyramid on the 4K/8K then strop and test or try 3-5 X strokes with no pressure on the 8K, then strop and test. It may take a couple tries, but if it's close now, it should get a little better. Try not to do too much honing at one setting as that will make it less frustrating.

Keep us posted.

Have fun.

Did you do the magic marker test? It will show you if/where your blade is contacting the hone, and will give you a good indication of what type of honing stroke to use.

I read the thread from B&B and it's kind of unsettling how many people told you to reset the bevel. Since your razor came pro honed there was already an established bevel, and your razor likely only required a refresh (aka touch up). Resetting a bevel is pretty extreme, even going down to the 4k level was probably overkill. Next time start off on your highest grit hone and work your way down from there.

Since you got your razor close you can do another small pyramid or two and see if it helps. Or you can stay on the 4k until it shaves hairs effortlessly; move to the 8k and do zero pressure laps, checking after every 10 laps or so. When there is some improvement try a test shave and go from there. If you do have a hone with a higher grit than 8k I would strongly recommend staying on the 8k until you can achieve a comfortable shave.

Other than that, are you using tape on the spine? There is a possibility that whoever honed it originally used tape.

Edit: Looks like Lynn beat me to it...

Yea, really just to repeat what was said another way, less is more in honing and other things. Start with the highest grit hone and see what happens. You might have just needed a minor touch up to begin with and you over did it. You can always fall back to a lower grit but once you start low then you have to progress up the line again and subject your razor to more wear.

Originally Posted by Lynn

I think one of the problems and this is common with new folks is that you are trying everything out there and there is a lot of information out there. The most important things in my opinion for the new guy are to learn to get to no pressure and to keep the blade flat on the stone. This takes a little practice. I would recommend just picking one method, like the pyramid or the circles or the X strokes and just work with that one until you get a razor shaving nicely. It sounds like you are close now off the 8K Norton, so trying to dial in would be good. Try just a 1-3, 1-5 pyramid on the 4K/8K then strop and test or try 3-5 X strokes with no pressure on the 8K, then strop and test. It may take a couple tries, but if it's close now, it should get a little better. Try not to do too much honing at one setting as that will make it less frustrating.

Keep us posted.

Have fun.

+1
Tell me how you have lapped your Norton hones.
A new Norton often needs to have a bit of work to remove
the "rind". About 1/32" not a lot but enough. Coarse
3M wet dry on a flat tile or cutting board under running water
will do. Do test both sides for flat in the same way.

The pyramid method is as good starting method.

I honed my first razor last night using the Norton 4k/8k and it worked out well for me. You definitely need to lap the stone flat before using it, though. Mine was ridiculously rough on both sides, but they smoothed out nicely using only the DMT D8C.

If you haven't checked out the videos on YouTube, you really should. Go to YouTube and search "janorton". Find the video by SharpSRP and watch that. I followed a pattern nearly identical to what he did and my razor is almost too sharp for me and my beginner straight shaving skills to handle.

Originally Posted by Ryan82

Did you do the magic marker test? It will show you if/where your blade is contacting the hone, and will give you a good indication of what type of honing stroke to use.

Other than that, are you using tape on the spine? There is a possibility that whoever honed it originally used tape.

I did use the magic marker test and it showed I had an even stroke.

I decided to not tape the spine. I bought my razor from Classic Shaving so I am not sure what they do, but I am positive I am past any of their honing with the amount of work I have put into the razor.

Originally Posted by niftyshaving

Tell me how you have lapped your Norton hones.

DMT D8C. I spent about an hour on each side! It was in pretty rough shape from the factory I guess and the 8k still need more, but just on the corner which I have learned to avoid.

Thanks so much for the help every one. I tried some of your guys' advice and it worked. I just shaved (evening shaver here) and it was the best yet. I am still experiencing some tugging, but no where near where it was before and overall the blade feels much sharper. I'll let you guys know how my progress goes. Thanks again.

Do all new hones need to be lapped?