Thread: 4 hours on 3k, and still not enough

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Now starting at one end of the hone using a fair bit of pressure start doing circles and go to the other end of the hone, stop, flip the razor and do the circles back should be 20-40 circles on each side, do this until one of these things happens

a.The razor feels sharp and can either cut arm hair, or pass a TNT
b. The tape wears out and you have to change it, then continue on with this until a. or c.
c. You realize that you really have no idea what you are doing and you send it to one of the guys over in Norway or I remember who it is in Denmark that hones

I can get it to cut arm hair with parts of the blade, and cut in to my finger yesterday (ouch!!!). Isn't that at least something, or is it just me wanting to believe that I didn't made a fool of my self?

Originally Posted by bemil

I can get it to cut arm hair with parts of the blade, and cut in to my finger yesterday (ouch!!!). Isn't that at least something, or is it just me wanting to believe that I didn't made a fool of my self?

Wow, I am in that exact same situation. I did slice my finger (not badly) and I can also cut some arm hair with parts of the blade...I've been reading this very closely.

I suspect, and correct me if I'm wrong, that because we are not using a true bevel setting stone (3k for you, 4k for me) that it takes a lot of honing to get to where we need. Where an experienced person might be able to set a bevel on a proper stone in maybe 20 minutes, we may need hours. I would say that the razor I'm working on has about an hour's worth of honing to it in total.

Maybe you could try stepping up to the 8k and seeing how it shaves? Might be worth it just to see what it feels like on your face...

Originally Posted by bemil

The brand of stone I am using is KASUMI. Actually I'm not sure about what to do. If all of you experienced honers say that I am sure to mess it up even further, there might be something to it. Still I do absolutely not think that another sharp razor will help me set the bevel on the one that I have now, which is the problem I am facing for now. Thus for now I am trying to figure out what i should do.



That was what I got out of different videos on the internet before I discovered this website. If only I could go back in time...

And I am still confused, 'cause some advice me to buy a 1k, whereas other advice me to stop trying, and focusing on the fine grits and stropping with another razor (or with this one honed by an experienced honer)

Hi Bemil

Yep, can get a bit hard and fast in here but your confusion over the 1k stone would probably be my fault as i told you to take a step back. This wasn't meant literally so my apologies.

In summary, what i think the prevailing opinion would be on the thread is that should should leave this razor alone and take up our norwegian members kind offer to hone it for you. And also purchase a second razor which is shave ready.

You will then have 2 razors. One you will use regularly and the other to be used a a benchmark razor. As you learn to strop the regular razor, you will begin to see when it's starting to dull and stropping will not bring it back by comparing it to the benchmark razor. At this point you will have had quite a few months of stropping practice and will be ready to move onto a touch-up hone such as some form of 12k. This will help you develop your honing strokes etc.

Once you're getting good consistent touch up results, then look at learning to set bevels on something cheapo and already destroyed from ebay.

I understand your confusion and frustration. My own personal experience of it is documented on these threads. Please note it was something like 6 or 7 weeks before i was able to get a good edge on my blade. and a large part of that was going away and leaving the blade for 3 weeks before coming back to it. Please also note that on many occasions i thought i had a good edge, but didn't because i didn't have the experience to know.

http://straightrazorpalace.com/works...-myself-3.html
http://straightrazorpalace.com/honin...-happened.html

For a beginner like me, I find having a shave ready razor does few things for me
1. I now know how it feels shaving with a shave ready razor. And it is very different shaving with a shavette / disposable, I tried that too. Shaving with a disposable does make shaving with a straight somewhat easier, but that is not the point. The point is how the it feels when shaving.

2. I now know to some degree how a shave ready razor should be. I can do at least 2 tests with it: Thumb Pad Test, Shave Test. I won't even go to HHT. I can do these tests on the shave ready razor to 'know' what it should be. This put a goalpost somewhere in my mind when I hone. It also serves as a point of reference, you can always come back to it to compare.

Buying a second shave ready razor will not fix your problem. However, it will give you a 'feel' to how things ought to be. And I find having a goalpost / point of reference helps alot.

Trying to hone a straight without knowing how it feels shaving with one seems lacking in precedence, it's like trying to tune up a car without knowing how it drives. Hope I use a good analogy there. Using this analogy, if one who doesn't know how the car drives and has never tune one up before trying to tune up a brand new car, it is very easy to ruin it. So 'how much damage can you do?', I'd say quite alot, you could have a brand new razor and turn it into an aging honed out toe razor, now you don't want that do you.

What tekbow said above 'leaving the blade for 3 weeks before coming back to it' is a really good advise. It gives you time and opportunity to know real straight razor shaving, and heck, you could find out during that time that you can't be bothered with stropping, or you don't like it at all. He's not trying to discourage you from honing, just to delay it a little bit.

Originally Posted by bemil

I can get it to cut arm hair with parts of the blade, and cut in to my finger yesterday (ouch!!!). Isn't that at least something, or is it just me wanting to believe that I didn't made a fool of my self?

PS: You have to keep the blade spine and edge flat on the hone to get an even bevel, and btw, did you flatten the hone first?

Hope this helps but I'm not counting on it.

Sy

Originally Posted by U2Bono269

Maybe you could try stepping up to the 8k and seeing how it shaves? Might be worth it just to see what it feels like on your face...

I like this idea. I would do 20 on the 8k and test it out. You have your other razor to back you up if it doesn't work. Use the feedback from your face. Stop right away if it doesn't feel right! :-] Go back to 20 on the 3k and then 20 on the 8k. Test again and see what happens. Repeat. Similar to the pyramid system but stop and test between every step don't do it all at once.

I see a lot of good advice here but I haven't seen the magic marker test mentioned. If you have done your research you know what i mean. From what I gather you are getting inconsistent results = inconsistent strokes.

Play with it. Your first attempt is going to be junk when you are done. My first attempt is used as a knife on my work bench!

I had a recent experience that put it into perspective for me. I did the best i could do with a blade. I went to a person who could judge it. He gave me a few ideas to try. I tried them. It was a little better. I then said lets see how you could improve it. he couldn't.
No disrespect to him but I was chasing something that wasn't there. The point that I am trying to make here is that you can say that one blade is shave ready. But is yours the same thing? Don't compare a Macintosh to a Fireside. {Apples to Apples.}

Tim

Emil. A couple of things I know from experience.
1. The one new Puma I honed was warped in the spine. Quality is not like the vintage Pumas. This may account for you having some areas sharp & others blunt. You will need to adapt your stroke to make contact with the whole edge use the magic marker test to assess contact .

Bevel-setting in theory and practice - Straight Razor Place Wiki

2. Kasumi stones are verrry soft & need lapping frequently. They are made for stainless knives not razors. They also cut very fast & work best on light pressure which you say you are using. As fast as they are a 3k does not replace a 1k if it is needed.
The other VIP thing is that the 3/8k's I have seen &/or used are mis-labeled. The white side is 3k & the yellow is 8k. If you are using the yellow side thinking it is 3k it is no wonder you are getting nowhere. Hope this helps.

Hi everyone,

Thank you very much for your advice. Right now I don't feel like keep trying to set the bevel. I am very tempted to say yes to the offer, Zephyr gave me, and send it to him.

Let me try to answer some of the questions. I did flatten the hone, but maybe not enough. I am cutting steel, yes. And I do see the stone get another color, which I can remove with water, so that must be swarf.
I have not made the magic marker test, as I do not have a loupe, and without that it is just to small to see. The stone is pretty wet when i use it, but most of the water obviously fall off, when I start to hone.
I can tell that there has been metal removed from both the spine and the edge, so I suppose that the stone is not mislabeled, but I have done a little honing on the 8k, so I couldn't tell for sure.

Again, thank you everyone for the advice. I feel kind of discouraged at the moment, so I think that I will spend the weekend without thinking on my razor problem, and then make a decision in the next week.

Kindly, Emil.

I just found out that the notifications of the grits on the case of my 3k/8k water stone are the opposite of what was printed on the stone.
Anyone else having a problem getting a bevel set on a 8k ???

Originally Posted by bemil

I just found out that the notifications of the grits on the case of my 3k/8k water stone are the opposite of what was printed on the stone.
Anyone else having a problem getting a bevel set on a 8k ???

You can't set a bevel on an 8k.

Originally Posted by bemil

I just found out that the notifications of the grits on the case of my 3k/8k water stone are the opposite of what was printed on the stone.
Anyone else having a problem getting a bevel set on a 8k ???

I gave you both a like and a thanks on this post!

Thank you for saying OOOPs. I had the wrong side. that shows me you are willing to take advice and admit what happened. then go on.

I like it because it shows how we learn from each other. I like to use this process when I am stumped at work. Things just aren't going right and if you admit that to another they can look at it from a different angle and see what the problem is. Onimaru55 has obviously seen this before and he brought up something that I have not experienced and therefore didn't think of. I will remember now!

Your learning is far from over and I am sure you will have many more questions. You have been given some good advice in this thread and do searches for other questions. If you can't find the answers Onimaru55 or others can point you in the right direction.

Tim