Thread: I think I finally got a good edge from a coti!

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Welsh Hone of Indeterminate Grit = the hones that appeared on e-bay recently that were given stupid grit ratings
since no natural stone actually has a grit rating, this started with the Chinese hone that was marked 12k and Holli4pirating re-named it a PHIG = Peoples Hone of Indeterminate Grit...

So we have
Grey WHIG
Purple WHIG
and Green WHIG

I called the Phig a Chug, Chinese hone of undetermined grit... same difference I guess.
Phig sounds like Fig. I like Figs but I don't like Chugs. I like Whig better than Whug though.

Meyers, Bravo!

The coti is a rock that just mocked all my efforts for at least 100 blades. 2-300 strokes was not uncommon for me either. 'Not saying I was doing it anywhere near right, but that rock has been a struggle. 'Have 3, one up on the ads now. I could get a shaveable edge every time, but compared to the jnat edge it was less than inspiring. Heck, the nani 12 usually did better. I can only suspect there is a distinct feel that some guys LOVE about a coti edge. That you've gotten a shaveable edge from one is an accomplishment. Lift the glasses everyone!

I finally test shaved this edge, and it's definitely the best edge that I've been able to get from a coticule. However, I guess I just don't like coticule edges that much. I haven't fully given up on them yet, but I won't be using them as a finisher anymore. May be better as a step up from the 8k before going to the green WHIG or my new trans black ark.

Sorry you didn't get the result you want. Maybe try a pasted paddle? Or at least see how it feels after a couple of shaves?.

Michael

Meyers, would it be fair to say its mostly the sharpness you struggle with? (that was my case) There's a few options open to you. IMHO, the upper ends of coti sharpness are what separate the highly skilled from guys like me - at least in regards to the Belgian boogey man. The coti feel, though can largely be given from getting it sharp on something else, and then *insanely* light strokes on clear water for a finish. Any of the 12+ stones you have access to could give the sharpness, and then 20 super light strokes on the coti would give a feel as to whether you like the coti edge or not.

I would have bailed out on the coti at least 100 blades ago if it weren't for two edges that actually rivaled my jnat. Having felt those edge, I know it can happen w/ a coti.

My latest coti efforts have been much improved, though the upper reaches of sharpness still evade my humble efforts. From my reading, very few can really wring out the sharpness w/ just a coti. Those guys exist, but they are few. Harvitz, Richmondesi, Tat2ralphy, and, of course, the honorable Bart.

Rob how about instead of beating yourself up, you try my coticule at the next meet up we have and see if it isn't maybe the stone Coticules are easier to use than a J-nat IME but like any natural stone they differ so if you can get a good edge out of the J-nat the Coticule should be easier to get right.. BUT once you max out a stone you're done there is only so much the hands can do

Just a thought

Originally Posted by pinklather

Meyers, would it be fair to say its mostly the sharpness you struggle with?

Yes, it's definitely sharpness that is giving me trouble. The razor shaved fine and I consider it to be shave ready, but it just wasn't the same as what I get from some of my other stones. Just to see what happens, I'll go ahead and use this razor for the rest of this week (even though I want to go back to the Arkansas edge that I tried on Saturday). It could always come into it's own after a few shaves and trips to the strop. I'll keep everyone apprised of the situation.

So you are saying that you can go back to the Coti from a 12k synthetic stone. But can you go to a synthetic stone from a Coti...? I read on a German website that sells Escher, that they do not recommend using an Escher after a Coti or BBw because the geometry of the bevel off the Coti/BBw is no good for the Escher. What does that mean...?

I only have a 1000/3000 synthetic, a BBW and a Coti but I have a feeling that my edge could be sharper, so I'm thinking to buy a 12k Naniwa. Could I go to the Naniwa from the Coti, and after that back to the Coti?

Sadly, I do not know exactly what level of sharpness to expect from a SR, I only know how it feels to shave with a new, mediocre DE blade in a less than mediocre shavette. And there is a HUGE difference. (and I don't think its my technique) Maybe my SR could do better...

Do I understand well, that making an edge smoother - ie. teeth-less - does not mean to make it duller as well. So let's say that the 12k stone's sharpness should remain the same after having made it smooth with a Coti...? Or will it be duller as well?

The sharper the better.

Thank you very much

Péter

Originally Posted by szarvi

So you are saying that you can go back to the Coti from a 12k synthetic stone. But can you go to a synthetic stone from a Coti...? I read on a German website that sells Escher, that they do not recommend using an Escher after a Coti or BBw because the geometry of the bevel off the Coti/BBw is no good for the Escher. What does that mean...?

A) Those are not Eschers first off, and that is only Their opinion you have to do your own testing to determine what works for you, but I have found that the least variables normally yeilds the most consistent results...

I only have a 1000/3000 synthetic, a BBW and a Coti but I have a feeling that my edge could be sharper, so I'm thinking to buy a 12k Naniwa. Could I go to the Naniwa from the Coti, and after that back to the Coti?

A.) The Naniwa 12k is a very fine finisher in itself -BUT- shapness is attained at the lower stages of honing, it goes Bevel - Sharpen - Polish - Finish you have to decide how you are going to accomplish those steps in fact the finishing step might not even be a stone..

There are two threads in the honing section that are pretty enlightening one is the JaNorton and the other is the thread about shaving off a 1k both really take a stab at simplifing the honing process..


Sadly, I do not know exactly what level of sharpness to expect from a SR, I only know how it feels to shave with a new, mediocre DE blade in a less than mediocre shavette. And there is a HUGE difference. (and I don't think its my technique) Maybe my SR could do better...

Do I understand well, that making an edge smoother - ie. teeth-less - does not mean to make it duller as well. So let's say that the 12k stone's sharpness should remain the same after having made it smooth with a Coti...? Or will it be duller as well?

The sharper the better.

Thank you very much

Péter

Sharp and smooth is what actually makes this type of honing different from all the others, two get both aspects to come together in an edge takes practice..

Thank you very much for the thread tips! Haven't checked them yet tho.

I was wondering about barbers of old times. 1. They did strop in a strange fashion - like crazy -, without destroying their edges... Plus just now I read that a barber's hone is somewhere between the 6-8000 grit. So their edges came off a barber's hone. 2. I also read that they did take their time and stropped patiently for a decent amount of time. 3. I also read that an untreated, natural leather strop has abrasive qualities. Some maybe like 30k.

I wonder if it is possible to "upgrade" a teethy but sharp enough edge off 6-8000 grit with vigorous stropping and then using the guillotine and light pressure to get nice shaves...

And also wondering that an edge coming off the finest stone available can have the luxury of being completely toothless, just because it is sharp like hell in and of itself... Close to a factory DE blade. But if you smooth out a not-so-sharp edge, it will glide off on top of the whiskers... But if it has teeth, it will pull... (oh my god... should I post this at all...?) :-)

And also whether the main goal in honing is a.) to find the right balance between being keen - or less keen - or as smooth as possible (which I think means having teeth or not to have teeth) and being sharp (which I think is the size of the tip of the edge) OR b.) to achieve the sharpest AND smoothest edge...

Yes, yes, yes - I am going to read those threads now...! :-) I was just thinking out loud.

Thanks for the above answers!