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Thread: I think I finally got a good edge from a coti!

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    Default I think I finally got a good edge from a coti!

    Ever since I started honing (which hasn't been that long yet), I've always been intrigued with coticules. I purchased one from a member here (Disburden, if memory serves me correctly) and then bought another from eBay. I played with the first coti for a while, but shortly after receiving the second coti, I purchased a set of the WHIGs that are being sold on eBay and quickly proceeded to forget about the cotis.

    I decided to take a razor back to the stones today, and when I was getting my hones out, I saw the second coticule and decided it was time to give it another whirl as a finisher. I started with my Nortons, working from the 1k to the 4k to the 8k. After the 8k, I used my DMT325 to raise a little cutting slurry on the coticule and proceeded doing 25 x-strokes and then diluting with a single drop of water. Another 25 x-strokes and another dilution.... This went on for about 8 or 10 dilutions (maybe more, I didn't really count). I rinsed the stone and then went another 50 x-strokes on just plain water. Then, I rinsed again and put three drops of glycerin on the surface of the stone and added water until it was the consistency of hot cooking oil, and 50 more laps. After 75/100 linen/leather, this thing is "topping trees" like a BAMF. I may have found this stone's sweet spot! I'll let everyone know after the test shave, which is scheduled for tomorrow morning!

    I've included links to pics of the coti. I'd like to hear from some of the coti guys which vein they think this one might have come from. It feels a lot harder than my other coti, and it pretty quick on slurry.

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    Last edited by myersn024; 04-23-2012 at 01:48 PM.
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    thats awesome man!!! glad to hear it went well. I can't wait to get a coti. I just find it hard to spit that kind of money out for a rock lol

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    Hope the shave goes well!! Beautiful coti by the way, and looks like a great size/shape to hone on.

    Michael

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    Nice looking stone. Looks like the kind of vintage size/shape that barber supplies sold way back in the day so you'll not likely be able to ID the vein. I was reading your post and it seems, if I understand it correctly, that you did something like between 250 and 300 X strokes on the coticule ? That following a progression on the norton. All razors are different and there are many variables, but ..... it seems to me, without a hands on look at the razor... that you're doing way more than is necessary or prudent. Just IMHO.

    If you get the razor to shave readiness.... IOW, you've gone to the 8k level and test shaved. The razor is shave ready. Then go to your coticule, or whatever and do 30 X strokes..... some guys would say that is too much ... and it might be. Anyway, that is an awful lot of strokes on a coticule that is starting out with a razor honed to 8k. Anyway, I hope you get the best shave you ever had.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyHAD View Post
    Nice looking stone. Looks like the kind of vintage size/shape that barber supplies sold way back in the day so you'll not likely be able to ID the vein. I was reading your post and it seems, if I understand it correctly, that you did something like between 250 and 300 X strokes on the coticule ? That following a progression on the norton. All razors are different and there are many variables, but ..... it seems to me, without a hands on look at the razor... that you're doing way more than is necessary or prudent. Just IMHO.

    If you get the razor to shave readiness.... IOW, you've gone to the 8k level and test shaved. The razor is shave ready. Then go to your coticule, or whatever and do 30 X strokes..... some guys would say that is too much ... and it might be. Anyway, that is an awful lot of strokes on a coticule that is starting out with a razor honed to 8k. Anyway, I hope you get the best shave you ever had.
    I was thinking that the vein may be indeterminable. I bought this stone in an auction on eBay, and the seller said it had been sitting in a barn for a while when he found it. I'm not even sure he knew exactly what he had. When it arrived, it was dished out in the center pretty bad, but the DMT325 mad short work of it. It also came with a small rubbing stone, but I don't think it's the same type of stone as the coticule.

    As for the number of laps, yeah, I think I did too many. I had tried slurry dilutions before with no success. I think I was diluting too fast, hence the slower progression. Based off your thoughts about it being from a barbers supply, it'll probably be a great stone to use for touching up an edge. I'll try that next since I've got a razor that needs a little work before using it again.

    Unfortunately, though, I didn't get to try the edge this morning. I was working outside over the weekend and cut my thumb and had to have stitches, so I'm back to my DE for a few days until the stitches come out.

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    Senior Member blabbermouth JimmyHAD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by myersn024 View Post
    Based off your thoughts about it being from a barbers supply, it'll probably be a great stone to use for touching up an edge.
    Back in the 1980s I got into collecting straight razors and went to many barber shops in North New Jersey. The barbers in those shops were generally in their 60s and 70s and had more or less quit doing shaves on a regular basis. So I would ask if they had any straights to sell. They usually did and I eventually started getting coticules and barber hones from them as well. The 5x2 1/2 was the stone I usually saw in their possession. Not always but more often than not.

    Get the razor shaving well off of the 8k. Then take it to the coticule with water only to start with and do 10 X strokes weight of the blade. See if that doesn't improve the edge. Do more if it doesn't. If you find you need to use slurry use a thin slurry to begin with and dilute to clear, then test the edge. IME I've had to sometimes figure out where a coticule was at. Some are fast and others slow and approaching it cautiously will let you know what you've got. Sneak up on it.

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    The stone has a nice yellow coti look to it, not too green, not too pink, if I had to pick a vein, I'd say la petite blance, standard grade, nice stone.... I'm no expert on veins, and from what you say, it is probably vintage. What's it backed with? Many vintage coti's were backed with BBW's. If you rub the back with the dmt and it makes purple slurry, it's a bbw.

    Try scratching the surface of the stone when it's dry with your fingernail. See if it leaves a scratch, if so, how distinct is it? Stones that leave no visable, or a barely visable mark, are hard. Stones that leave a very distinct mark, are soft. This test makes more sense when you have several Coticules. If you make a slurry, and do back strokes with your blade, See how fast the slurry darkens, The faster is does, The faster the coti is, The longer it takes, the slower it is.

    I agree with Jimmy, Less is more, especially in this instance. Coti's are known for their cutting/finishing ability. Using the 1k, 4k, and 8k, and then going to the Coti, doing all those lapps might be a bit much. Most of the Coti guys, would have just used the Coticule on it's own, with slurry, diluting as they go. You can use the rubbing stone that came with it, It doesn't matter if it's the same or not. Most of the time, they're not the same. You can most certainly use your DMT. Coti's cut faster with slurry, and finish well with plain water.


    I'm not sure what condition your razor was in to begin with, but most of the time, once your bevel is set, you can go right to the Coti. With more slurry, some guys use them to create a bevel. If your get your razor shave ready with your Nortons, and want the Coti edge, 10-20 lapps with just plain water is most likely more than enough. It will vary based on Stainless steel, Wedges, etc...

    All the visable veins or cracks on your Coticule are a good example of why they are backed with slate, or a BBW. Actually, it looks like the ones sold by the superior shave. They sell a lot of standard grade stones. I assume they can not be felt while honing....Every once in a while, a vein, or crack may become wider or more pronounced during lapping. If this happens, they can be filled.

    I'll have to put the procedure in the wiki.
    Last edited by zib; 04-23-2012 at 02:34 PM.
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    Senior Member Gamma's Avatar
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    What's a Whig?
    Welsh Hone ??? Grit or something?

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    Its a real nice looking coticule ..It looks like my la vainette standard grade .after the 8k norton . i newster use 75 laps on belgium blue sde for 75 laps on light slurry and switch to 75 laps on water on the yellow side..now that did work well. I got the idea rom heavy dutys progression. he has a video some where on the forum..You should check it out.. I've also finished on yellow coticule with just 30 laps (water ) that worked but i did have an exallant edge coming of 8k that particular time . Like jimmy saystest shave of 8k always ..when and only when your shave is perfect of 8k. then do 30 laps on water only.. Then see what you think ...Nice stone any how .. i'll et the shave is a smooth one

    gary

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gamma View Post
    What's a Whig?
    Welsh Hone ??? Grit or something?
    Welsh Hone of Indeterminate Grit = the hones that appeared on e-bay recently that were given stupid grit ratings
    since no natural stone actually has a grit rating, this started with the Chinese hone that was marked 12k and Holli4pirating re-named it a PHIG = Peoples Hone of Indeterminate Grit...

    So we have
    Grey WHIG
    Purple WHIG
    and Green WHIG


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