Thread: coticule connundrum

Ok, I've been straight shaving since Feb and have accumulated a nice 7 day rotation. I've been able to get away without really honing them since then but the time has come for some love for them. I had a nice TI Le Grelot and was getting a bit dull so in spite of not touching my coticule for the last 3 months or so (I had never gotten the hang of it) I tried just touching it up 3 nights this week for about 20 minutes a night. I really concentrated on keeping the blade on the stone without rocking. The coticule is fairly slow I think, and its 60X200 so not the easiest to keep the blade in tact at all times for a beginner.

The first night I thought I did ok, but the shave was poor the next day. Just wasn't really sharp enough to cut the hair, but was sharp enough to cut be face in one place.

Second night, better result and a better shave the next day, but still not good. Still needed to use a DE for a 4th pass.

Day 3, just couldn't get a sharp edge. Tried for about 30 minutes, and then grabbed my norton 4K/8K and in 5 minutes had a very nice edge on it. Great shave this morning with that edge.

So I know I can hone, but that darn coticule is giving me fits. I started with a milky (2% ish) slurry for 15 passes, then every 6-8 lightened it up with a splash of water. Maybe a total of 30-50 passes in total. I was fairly sure I still had a good bevel as I had shaved successfully with it the morning before I started. I seem to have achieved a decent edge a few times that cut hair on my arm, but then 8 passes later it was dull as it was when I started. Like I went backwards.

I know You'll tell me to keep practicing and I intend to, but some tips would help.

TIA - Jim

I think you answered your own question, put the coti away and use the norton 4k/8k. Assuming the coti been lapped properly use the razor that you hone on the norton 4k/8k and take it to the coti with water only and see if it improves the edge.

Coti's have always been a struggle for me. I gave them up and stick with a range of Naniwa's and my Japanese naturals which have come together perfectly for me.

If you try it again and are touching up as a finisher, try it without slurry. Plain water and if it slurries, rinse it off and stay with water. The garnets in the slurry can dull an edge that's close to a finished edge. The edge runs into them instead of over them. Good Luck!

Regards,
Howard

If it does slurry with plain water it may be too soft for a finisher. Take a known good shaver ie off your 8k Norton & do say 30 passes on your coticule with water. I say 30 because you claim it's slow, maybe less would be better, like 15. If you see an improvement in the shave you then have a working progression.
It may not even be an ideal stone for slurry use. If you want to persist with using it as a single stone you will eventually work it out but it's easier to establish if it is a finisher or not.

Thanks guys. I bought it from TSS after talking with them about what they use for finishing their TI razors. About half of my rotation are TI 1/4 or 1/2 ground so I thought I'd be safe. I didn't expect this to be easy to get, and I know 3 days isn't much, but thought I'd ask for some guidance to accelerate my learning curve. I suppose I shouldn't be married to this stone, but also don't want to go through a dozen looking for just the right one.

Do a pencil grid and lap the stone very lightly with a DMT. It's possible that the stone looks flat, but isn't. I got one from TSS and didn't lap it at first. The edges were inconsistent and I moved on to a variety of other solutions. Months later, I decided to see what the deal really was with the coticule. Gridding and lapping showed that one half of the stone was perfectly flat, and on the other half the stone had a kind of saddle-shape. Presumably the edges I was getting depended on the orientation of the stone that day. Now that I've lapped the thing properly, I can get the edge I want every time.

So, I'd start with a genuinely flat surface before getting too deeply into the whole slurry thing.

Unfortunately, I've read this story many times. There's such an allure with Coticules, especially if your new. I don't know what it is, but it's a shame, and I feel sorry for all the guys who buy stones that are so so, or duds. Of course, TSS is going to sell you a Coticule, That's what they sell and since he sells Coticules, he has pick of the liter when he receives his stones from Ardennes. He probaby has a very good one.

It's always best when your starting out to use/master a synthetic hone, like the Nortons, or Naniwa. You'll get more consistent results. Coticules are naturals, and can be hit or miss. Like you said, said some guys go through several before they find one they like. I'm not sure if you had the stone tested or not, but some are slow, or just good as finishers. Most of the bland looking green ones are very slow, like La Grise.

There's a couple of tests you can do to your stone. You can scratch the surface wth your fingernail. If you can see a nice scratch, it's soft. If you see nothing, it's hard. Softer stones cut better, hard one's are better finishers. The more stones you handle, the more this test makes sense.

You can also raise a moderate slurry, and do backstrokes on your blade, sets of 20, and see if the slurry darkens, Once it starts to darken, you know steel is being removed. That should give you some indication on your stones speed. Lot's of variations in natural stones. It's a crap shoot, unless it has an "Escher" label on it.

Do you know what vein it is...?

My first stone was a Coti, and I still love that thing! But that's not to say that it didn't need to earn that love. Man that thing gave me fits, but it finally gave up its secrets! Smooth shaves were the result. But it'll never get my blades as sharp as some other mediums, that's for sure!

Here are some of the observations I found - "for me and my Coti:"

- Using a Coti means you need to be very aware of the pressure you are applying at all stages for each and every razor you use. You are not only learning the Coti, you are learning what each blade wants from it too.

Ok and now for some voodoo stuff that might make some here laugh lol .

- With the exception of bevel setting a stubborn blade (I just cant do it on mine), my razors like it best if used from start to finish. In other words I don't jump from an 8K to my Coti.

- That said, not every blade I have loves my Coti equally.

- When you are done with your slurry work, wash both the razor and Coti of any debris before doing a finish with just water.

- More than any stone I have (and I don't have many so take heed), watch for feel! Resistance of any kind is an indication of something; as are sounds.

- Last but not least don't ever get lazy with your Coti and rush any aspect or you are sunk. If you are getting a weird feel or sound at any point in the progression don't move on by diluting or what have you thinking you'll get it at the next stage. Moreover, if you find you missed a bit on the heal or toe or whatever... go back to the beginning.

YMMV.

For just touching up, I'd go without slurry. Coticule slurry is nice when you are setting a bevel and need to remove a lot of metal. Once your edge is already sharp, I feel it dulls the edge more than anything.