Thread: Joe Chandler, can I have a honing lesson?

Bobbo,

The "second bevel" would disappear with enough work on the 4K. Otherwise, the edge wouldn't get sharpened. You'd be sharpening the "shoulder" of the bevel until you wore it down to the same angle as the edge itself. A little hard to describe...

How many strokes do you do on the 4K after you leave the 1K?

Josh

Originally Posted by JoshEarl

Randy,

I agree that there's nothing sacred about the angle set by the manufacturer. It makes sense, since the angles on most blades probably change over time.

The only thing I worry about is whether there's an issue with the angle changing when you remove the tape and then go to a pasted strop. Electrical tape seems thick enough that it would slightly alter the angle, potentially keeping the edge from making contact with the strop if you removed the tape. That would necessitate putting the tape back on for touch ups, which I would find annoying.

Do you find that it's necessary to retape before doing touch ups?

For those of you who only use tape in the early stages of honing, how many strokes on the 4K Norton does it take to eliminate the second bevel after you've removed the tape?

Thanks,
Josh

In the past when I have removed the tape before using the pasted strop I have not encountered any difficulty.

If I am doing a touch up on a pasted strop then I do not reapply the tape.

If your are using tape on the 1k and then remove it for the 4K or if you tape on the 4K and then go to a finer grit the best way to learn is to use a microscope. The different bevel angles will reflect light differently and appear as two distinct colors under the microcope. When the bevel is complete it will be all one color for the full width of the bevel

Brilliant info, thanks all.

Gary

OK, I did some work with my trusty microscope last night to clear up this double bevel issue, and here's a quick report.

I was working on a 5/8 full hollow eBay special, so I taped the spine with electrical tape and did about 50 laps on my 1K waterstone, which got me a nice bevel and straight edge. (Randy, I know you say 1K should be a last resort, but the razors I'm usually working just laugh at me when I try them on the 4K. After 100 strokes on the 4K, they say to me, in a Joe Pesci voice, "Is that all you got?" It's obnoxious.)

I moved to the 4K and did about 30 strokes. Then I took the tape off the spine and did 10 strokes with average pressure. I wasn't trying to go light here--just my normal even honing stroke.

At this point I examined the bevel with my microscope. No double bevel was visible. I tried angling the blade different ways, but I couldn't find a double bevel.

I continued honing for another 40 to 50 strokes, checking my progress with the microscope, and I didn't find any evidence of a double bevel at any point.

My tentative conclusion is that the amount of change in the angle that is caused by electrical tape is slight enough that a few strokes on the 4K removes any secondary beveling.

The main thing reason I don't want to use tape throughout the honing process is that I hone a lot of razors for other guys, and I wouldn't want to give them a razor that they have to tape before refreshing. Some of them wouldn't do it, and then they'd wonder why they couldn't get the blade sharp again.

But it seems like this worry is groundless. I'll have to do some more experimenting to confirm this.

Thanks,
Josh

Originally Posted by JoshEarl

My tentative conclusion is that the amount of change in the angle that is caused by electrical tape is slight enough that a few strokes on the 4K removes any secondary beveling.

The main thing reason I don't want to use tape throughout the honing process is that I hone a lot of razors for other guys, and I wouldn't want to give them a razor that they have to tape before refreshing. Some of them wouldn't do it, and then they'd wonder why they couldn't get the blade sharp again.

But it seems like this worry is groundless. I'll have to do some more experimenting to confirm this.

Thanks,
Josh

Like you said, (unless the razor has an extremly thick spine and is extremly thin i.e. 3/8 4/8 etc.) the difference from the tape will be minimal and if they hone themselves the next time around it will likely be a non-issue within 10 to 20 passes on the 4k stone. I don't know about others but to check the bevel I do 10 to 12 passes on the 4k stone just starting out simply to see how it's hitting against the hone and whether or not i need to set the bevel.

Glen F

Yep, me too.

Hey Josh! If I had to listen to that twerp I would be using a 80 grit!

I agree with your observations about the minimal effect of the tape. I also agree with Fud about what it takes to remove any unevenness in the bevel. Not much at all, 10-25 laps seems to do it.

I do not take issue with removing the tape. Eah of us will try various things, I know that I certainly have! So far the only drawback I have experienced from leaving the tape on is when I use a diamond pasted paddle strop. The diamond seems to remove quite a bit of the tape and leaves it on the paddle strop. UGH! Thankfully I have not experienced that with the chrome oxide.

Randy,

Thanks for the tip on the diamond pastes. Right now, that's what I'm using on my pasted paddle.

I like the idea of saving spine wear through the honing process, so I may start using tape all the way through the 8K. It also seems to grip the hone slightly, giving me more control of the stroke.

I plan to do some more experimenting to satisfy myself that the taping won't make it difficult for new honers to refresh the razor. Once I'm convinced, I'll probably just leave it on.

Ilija has offered to share some CrO2 with me, so I suspect I'm about to join that club...

Thanks for all the help,
Josh

Originally Posted by JoshEarl

Ilija has offered to share some CrO2 with me, so I suspect I'm about to join that club...

Come on in, Sit down. The first hit's free.

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