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  1. #11
    Senior Member UKRob's Avatar
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    You have already identified the problem - 'no visible sign of steel coming off'. Increase the pressure and number of laps until you can see deposits in the water or on the surface of your hone. You will also learn a lot from the marker test as it's very common to have a razor where the spine is less than perfect which will cause problems on the blade edge. You can also spot this in the form of uneven wear if you are using tape.

    If's that is the problem you need to search the old posts for a remedy or start a new thread.

  2. #12
    Senior Member blabbermouth OCDshaver's Avatar
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    I’ve recently had a few razors that have completely stumped me. On one or two I have found solutions but the last one is challenging me to no end as well. I can pass along some of what seemed to work on the successes and will gladly update you on the last one if I ever get it figured out. I had two razors that would get sharp, but they wouldn’t jump to that next level of sharpness to a fully shave ready edge. They were close but now exactly there. They hung around in that annoying middle area – sharp enough to perhaps get by but not sharp enough to really do a bang up job. So every week or so I’m back at the hones trying to push them over the edge. Nothing. Razor #1 is a brand new razor. It came supposedly shave ready and for the most part was. But whoever honed it obviously hit the same brick wall I had and left it to the new owner to resolve. So upon someone else’s advice, I added a second layer of tape to the spine and went back to the 8K to set up a micro bevel. Suddenly its starting to come around. A few more passes and its seems fairly good. I move on to a 12K and its performing the way I was expecting it to all along. Whether this razor needs two layers of tape or a microbevel is yet to be determined. But that’s a trick you might consider. Add another layer of tape to the spine and hit the 8k again. Razor #2 was not brand new. It looked like it was bought new, sat around for a long time unused, then sold. It had some minor rust on the spine that cleaned easily with some sandpaper and metal polish. There was a very small chip taken out of the bevel that needed to be honed out. So I went to work on the 1k stone grinding away for what seemed like an hour to get the chip completely gone. The bevel is set. It had been set for quite some time but the chip required a lot more honing to get rid of it. Finally it can move on. I go to the 4k and see little improvement. I go to the 8k and see slight improvement. I continue at 8k, not getting better. I push forward with more on that stone, still not much better. Maybe give it a shot at 12k to see if that helps any. Not really. I slap on the second layer of tape. Hmmmm, its showing improvement but its stuck in that annoying middle ground again between truly shave ready and just below. I’m thinking about what else I can do with the set up that I have. As a desperation move, I go to a pasted strop with diamond spray. 5 laps on diamond and its considerably better. I do three more laps and stop. It feels like we may have nailed. It. It needs a test but it seems to be sharp enough for the task. Don’t ask me why the diamond spray worked and nothing prior to it did. The last razor HAD a good bevel when I started. It was shaving off of an 8k stone with typical 8k harshness. So, using the same taped spine I went to the 12k, then onto a Zulu grey to refine it. I’m great after the 12k but its steadily losng sharpness on the Zulu. Now its good and properly $%@#’d. What the hell happened? Ok, I must have over done it. I go back to the 8k and can’t seem to get the edge back that I had at 8k. I reset the bevel on the 1k and again can’t bring this one up through the stones to shave well off of the 8k. I try more tape, diamond spray, removing the natural stone….everything. This one has me stumped. Most of the hollow ground razors I’ve worked on honed up well and took on nice edges. But this one won’t budge. Try adding a layer or two of tape to the spine of your razor. It helped me on a couple troublesome ones.

  3. #13
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    I have purchased 35 straights and during my struggles with some razors, I put them aside figuring I will get to them eventually. They all passed the TNT after bevel set but didn't shave well. Every one benefited from getting the 325 600 1200 dmt. Really setting the bevel. I spent over an hour on one blade till it was set. Really set, then finished with the 4/8 and 12k Fine shaver now. I don't have a problem rremoving metal that needs to be removed to set that bevel. And I don't hesitate to use the 325 with very little pressure to get there. Tape will save your spine, although I don't use it.

  4. #14
    At this point in time... gssixgun's Avatar
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    Perhaps we might try a few questions to the OP before we give bad advice..

    1. What Brand and Type of grind is the razor ??? (You don't even know if the razor is capable of taking an edge yet, knowing the grind also tells you what might be expected )

    2. Was the razor shaving before ???? (Before you give advice to destroy the edge, the razor might not even need a bevel set)



    Some little hints for the rest of you

    Burrs are bad they destroy the steel on the edge, then you have to start again
    Not Everyone can use the Arm Hair Test (AHT) is doesn't work on some people
    The TNT combined with the Arm Hair test combined with a visual inspection like Ace is describing are all positive tests for the Bevel set, if you can do all three then more power to you but at least learn one of them to use effectively..
    A TPT test works also, but it is much harder for a Newb to master that test,
    Never use enough pressure to flex the edge



    A really good Vid explaining the Visual test Ace is describing

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZYFsOP7rBc
    Last edited by gssixgun; 04-08-2013 at 02:33 PM.
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    Senior Member blabbermouth
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    Six-gun, excellent advice we don’t often see… enough. “Get as much information before you remove metal.” Much of this hobby is problem solving, you have to understand the problem, before you can solve it.

    Unfortunately for the novice honer there is a lot of information / formulas for honing, based on general honing advice or how someone solve their problem. What no one can tell you is what your razor needs, because we can’t see or test your razor.

    The simplest test is to look at the razor. You should perform these test before you exchange money for it, but assuming you are doing this over your hones, it’s too late.
    First sight the spine from both ends, looking for straightness, then sight the edge for the same. Anomalies forecast problems and course of action. Now look at the spine for hone wear pattern, is it even, is it excessive. Now look at the bevel, is it even, wide, or narrow, smiling or frowning. Is the edge perpendicular to the spine?

    Now look at the edge from the sides and straight down, for chips, burrs and cracks. Cracks for me are deal breakers, a strong light and magnification will make this much easier.

    When honing, marker ink and tape highlight problems and make them easier to see.

    One of the other problems is the ambiguity of the term “Bevel Setting”, what it means is simply sharpening, grinding the two bevels until they meet evenly and forms a sharp edge. Everything after that is polishing the edge.

    You cannot polish an edge that does not exist… you are just removing metal, blindly.
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  • #16
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    One of the other problems is the ambiguity of the term “Bevel Setting”, what it means is simply sharpening, grinding the two bevels until they meet evenly and forms a sharp edge. Everything after that is polishing the edge.
    You cannot polish an edge that does not exist… you are just removing metal, blindly

    Yes sir, you are right. The OP stated the blade didn't cut hair on the arm and failed the shave test. There is no sharpness. The only way to get it is by removing more metal. The only way to do that in any reasonable time frame is by using an appropriate hone that removes metal quickly. And since the OP has a 220 grit hone, I would suggest using it. And then the 1k etc. If I could go back to when I first started honing, I would recommend a 220/1k hone to start. After you can get it sharp, then use the 4/8 etc.
    All the finishing of a blade,4/8 12, .1 micron film, jnats, coticules, sub micron diamond spray etc will not help you if your bevel isn't set. And if it doesn't cut hair, ITS NOT SET! So, go back to the 220 or 1k and don't stop until you can cut hair on your arm.

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    At this point in time... gssixgun's Avatar
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    That simply isn't true...

    The arm hair test is Not Foolproof this is why it is good to learn all the tests and then see what system works best for you... (At every Meet I have been to there is at least one person who it doesn't work for)

    Again you are simply tossing out the same advice without a basis... Tearing the belly out of a blade with low grit stones is simply not the answer it is an inexperienced rush to sharpen a razor... Please Stop !!!!

    Most problems do start in the bevel but you need to learn to read it and stop tearing it up...

    Here are some numbers for you, less then 10 blades out of every 100 blades that cross my hones ever touch a hone below a 1k and they are complete restores not just honing.. they need real heavy work with re-contouring the edge...

    There is no such thing as a reasonable time frame, the razor takes the time it takes, even for those of us that hone professionally if it doesn't work the first time through, so what, we don't shred the edge with a 220 Norton or a DMT 325 or 600, because we want it done faster...


    ps: That statement I always make about walking away from tuff razors, I am doing that right now as I type, I have 6 razors on the hones this morning 4 of them popped a bevel the first time through on the 1k, I went and got a Coke and I am killing time relaxing my hands typing this before I go try one more time on the 2 razors.. If they do not pop I am not going to shred them on the DMT's or Low grits, I am going to dry them and set them aside for later tonight or tomorrow and I will try again slow and steady "Slow is Smooth .. Smooth is Fast"
    Last edited by gssixgun; 04-08-2013 at 07:18 PM.

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    We know the razor is dull, the OP has a 220/1k and 4/8. What would you suggest he do then. You have only said what he shouldn't do.

  • #19
    At this point in time... gssixgun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bill3152 View Post
    We know the razor is dull,
    No we don't
    We know little to nothing so far, read post #14 when I get more answers from the OP I will probably give more advice on what to do, instead of just shooting from the hip..

    We can all toss out solutions that worked on razors we had, but until we get some answers they all mean next to nothing..

    What if he says it is a Kriger razor ??? all this is for naught then isn't it

    If he says W&B heavy the answers will be much different then Dovo Bizmarck this is why I said ask questions to get as much info as possible before giving bad advice
    Last edited by gssixgun; 04-08-2013 at 07:39 PM.

  • #20
    At this point in time... gssixgun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gssixgun View Post


    ps: That statement I always make about walking away from tuff razors, I am doing that right now as I type, I have 6 razors on the hones this morning 4 of them popped a bevel the first time through on the 1k, I went and got a Coke and I am killing time relaxing my hands typing this before I go try one more time on the 2 razors.. If they do not pop I am not going to shred them on the DMT's or Low grits, I am going to dry them and set them aside for later tonight or tomorrow and I will try again slow and steady "Slow is Smooth .. Smooth is Fast"

    Not that it has anything to do with this thread directly, and not sure anyone cares but both W&B heavies just popped on the 3rd bevel setting rotation, 20 Circles with pressure 20 circles with light pressure (Just like Lynn showed everyone) and then 20 X strokes all on the 1k Chosera to even it up, is what I call a rotation..
    Nothing drastic no rushing to finish, just smooth steady work.. I would have set them aside until tomorrow if they had not popped ...

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