Thread: Not getting anywhere

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Perhaps we might try a few questions to the OP before we give bad advice..

1. What Brand and Type of grind is the razor ??? (You don't even know if the razor is capable of taking an edge yet, knowing the grind also tells you what might be expected )

2. Was the razor shaving before ???? (Before you give advice to destroy the edge, the razor might not even need a bevel set)



Some little hints for the rest of you

Burrs are bad they destroy the steel on the edge, then you have to start again
Not Everyone can use the Arm Hair Test (AHT) is doesn't work on some people
The TNT combined with the Arm Hair test combined with a visual inspection like Ace is describing are all positive tests for the Bevel set, if you can do all three then more power to you but at least learn one of them to use effectively..
A TPT test works also, but it is much harder for a Newb to master that test,
Never use enough pressure to flex the edge

Was going to update today with those stats when I realized I had forgotten to mention them.

The razor is a Dovo "Best Quality" 5/8 Hollow ground and was shaving previously, though not so well recently, hence the attempt at honing. Also will add I first tried refreshing the blade with only the crox balsa and only after that didn't bring it back to shaving did I go to the stones.

Thanks all for the advice and response!

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Not that it has anything to do with this thread directly, and not sure anyone cares but both W&B heavies just popped on the 3rd bevel setting rotation, 20 Circles with pressure 20 circles with light pressure (Just like Lynn showed everyone) and then 20 X strokes all on the 1k Chosera to even it up, is what I call a rotation..
Nothing drastic no rushing to finish, just smooth steady work.. I would have set them aside until tomorrow if they had not popped ...

Thats your bevel set routine then? OK. You coulda said thats how you do it in sets of 20 circles etc. 120 circles and 60 x strokes. So if I used a dmt 1200 and say 100 laps why is that so much then? I dont automatically start at 325. The ones where the marker test (spine and edge) shows alot of black after 5 laps on the 12k is when i will do it. If the edge is short somewhere or the spine is off frown etc. I dont think 20 or 30 laps on a 220 will kill the edge either.

Originally Posted by Vicious

Was going to update today with those stats when I realized I had forgotten to mention them.

The razor is a Dovo 5/8 Hollow ground and was shaving previously, though not so well recently, hence the attempt at honing. Also will add I first tried refreshing the blade with only the crox balsa and only after that didn't bring it back to shaving did I go to the stones.

Thanks all for the advice and response!

Go straight to the JaNorton thread, take the rest of today to watch and learn, pick one of the many routines in that thread and try it out...
Pick the one that makes the most sense to you, but again TRY a shave after stropping and see where you are at right now this will give you a baseline to work from..

I seriously doubt you have overhoned the edge...

http://straightrazorpalace.com/honin...on-2012-a.html

That thread is all about using simply the Norton 4/8 only, from rank beginners to expert professional honers shared their ideas, successes and failures in there...

That thread teaches people how to approach a fine smooth edge slowly, and how to get the most out of the Norton 8k many of the Vids will show the TNT and the AHT even why it is wise to use both...

Originally Posted by bill3152

Thats your bevel set routine then? OK. You coulda said thats how you do it in sets of 20 circles etc. 120 circles and 60 x strokes. So if I used a dmt 1200 and say 100 laps why is that so much then? I dont automatically start at 325. The ones where the marker test (spine and edge) shows alot of black after 5 laps on the 12k is when i will do it. If the edge is short somewhere or the spine is off frown etc. I dont think 20 or 30 laps on a 220 will kill the edge either.

Why would I have said that before I knew anything about this guy's razor or situation ??? all that has nothing to do with the OP... Also you mis-read, the 120 + 60 was for an extreme case and heavy wedges, the other 4 razors (two wedges and two hollows) didn't need anywhere near that...

You might want to note by reading in the honing forum, that the recommendations to use anything lower then a 1k (approx) for "Honing" and not serious repair work are pretty few and far between... In fact if you read really close you will find that many don't even like using a 1k unless it is for a complete bevel reset...

40 circles and 20 x strokes will remove the same amount of metal as 100 laps on the 1200 dmt. Why is my count off but yours is not. You do this in sets so the minimum is that. We are talking about bevels. You said you do blade restorations with lower grit stones? Are these edges killed also? Isnt there a way to get these to shave then? Yes. Then why do you say that if a blade is off, that a lower grit stone is bad, but yet you use them? Im trying to make sense of what your saying. You tell me no, it kills the edge but you using them doesnt?

Originally Posted by bill3152

40 circles and 20 x strokes will remove the same amount of metal as 100 laps on the 1200 dmt. Why is my count off but yours is not. You do this in sets so the minimum is that. We are talking about bevels. You said you do blade restorations with lower grit stones? Are these edges killed also? Isnt there a way to get these to shave then? Yes. Then why do you say that if a blade is off, that a lower grit stone is bad, but yet you use them? Im trying to make sense of what your saying. You tell me no, it kills the edge but you using them doesnt?

Yep yer right you have it all figured out after 35 whole razors, Good Luck with that ...

You might try learning before giving advice.


(Robert I admit it, you were right after all - Private Joke)

Update: Finally got somewhere.

Went back to 1k stone on the Dovo "Best Quality" 5/8 for some circles. A lot of circles (with 1-layer tape). Did the felt-tip test and after an adjustment of my arm-moving-blade technique the bevel was on the stone evenly. Conservative estimate says I did about 100-120 circles, with x-strokes after every 15-20 circles then an AHT (I have another razor that cuts arm hair like butter so I feel it's a good indicator). After maybe 45-minutes with the circle/x-stroke/test routine the blade wasn't cutting hair, though this time there was steel coming off the blade (previously there hadn't been any). Tried the japanese style Glen showed in his Janorton video, which did a little better, but not much.

Got frustrated, put down the razor, put on some tunes, had a smoke, then read http://straightrazorpalace.com/honin...bing-over.html

And 2c. caught my eye so I added a layer of tape. 20 circles plus some x-strokes later and it's passing the AHT with ease. So yeah, score 1 for experimenting a little. Finished with a pyramid on the 4k/8k plus some 12k and did a test shave. Not a perfect shave, not by a long shot, but it cut hair and didn't pull too much at all. Still needs work, but happy to have seen some progress.

Thanks again to all who offered advice and avenues to persue!

~Matt

I promised that if I got anywhere with one of the problematic blades I was working on finally showed results. Well, last night I think I nailed one. Over the weekend I was reading one of Obie's conversations with Randy Tuttle, Straight Razor Place - Conversatrion with Randy Tuttle. In this post, Randy Tuttle suggested that if a razor at some point saw some rust at the cutting edge, it may not hold an edge until you grind away enough to reach some good steel. The razor in question was bought on eBay and appeared to be in good condition. But I thought, what if it saw some light rust at the cutting edge and it was removed with some metal polish? If the rust was right at the bevel, it wouldn't take much to oxidize right through would it? And how would I know that it had this rust but for the obvious symptom that I can't seem to get it to take an edge? So I put two layers of tape on the spine and went back to the 1k stone and ground away for quite some time. I raised a slurry and did circles until there was some considerable swarf. I then rinsed the stone and gave it a lap to clean the surface, raised another slurry and repeated. At this point I went about my normal bevel setting process of cleaning the stone again and doing light strokes on water only to get as much as I can from the 1k stone. This time the edge was showing progress at every level of progression. It seems ready for a test but I'm excited that a solution presented itself.

Vicious,

I'm going to try and help you by backing up to the beginnings. My first absolute recommendation is to find someone within driving distance to you who is proficient at honing. A few hours with a veteran honer will shave you a LOT of heartache and heartburn that you have already experienced. Don't get me wrong, there is a "touch" you must learn...but once you have that, your skills will do nothing but improve.

Are your stones lapped & lapped well? Those Nortons can have a thick "skin" sometimes. If that skin is on your stones, I couldn't hone a razor on it proficiently...nor could you.

My normal recommendation for any person wanting to learn the stones is to start with touch-ups. You didn't get it the first time, so try and try again. None of us got honing or touch-ups right the first time, much less every time. I still take a razor back to the stones from time to time after a honing & I've honed a razor or two.

Lets talk about pressure. You must use a little pressure to remove steel, but not enough to "flex" the blade. Deliberately flex the blade on the stones and pay attention to the pressure...now you know how much pressure NOT to use on that particular blade. On a bevel set, you will use enough pressure to remove steel, but not enough to flex the blade...in the beginning. You must then lighten the pressure gradually. Lets just say you were going to use 50 x strokes to re-set the bevel. The first 20 would be with pressure, each set of 10 strokes would have reduced pressure to where the last set of 10 strokes would just have the weight of the blade.

You had asked if you should "kill" an edge. No. Very, very, very few razors need this done.

Something I do recommend is that you pick up some sort of magnification. Radio Shack makes a lighted microscope that's cheap, but works pretty good. It eats batteries pretty quick, like one per honing session, but you could see literally what is going on at the edge. I still use one on bevel sets.

Again my friend, I strongly recommend finding a honing mentor...

Scott, if I could like your post twice, I would!