Thread: How sharp do you like it?

Originally Posted by TonyFranciozi

Hmmm . . . still not convinced hahaha.

Oh no I will never convince you, you will convince yourself or not at all...

Sit down in front of the TV, tune to a few good shows, hone a few thousand razors, get back to me with what you figure out

Oh and to quote the founder of this site "Have Fun"

Something that helped me understand was thinking about what the sharpest edge you might be able to get with a 220 grit stone or even courser looks like. Almost like a little fine toothed saw huh?

Another interesting exercise to help visualize what's going on might be to go get some 60 120 220 and 400 grit sandpaper and a 1/4 inch thick piece of wood and "sharpen" it with the paper flat on your bench. Cover your "spine" side with 6 layers of duct tape if that helps ya keep things consistent. Set a bevel with the 60 that only eats a 16th into each side. Notice the 1/8 inch flat where there should be sharp on your edge. Go ahead and move up the grits one by one as you would with the hones. Each successive grit removing only the grooves of the previous. Feel the bevel and the edge with each grit. If you don't over do it I bet you have at least 1/16 of an inch wide edge. Then go back to your 60 and start all over. Only this time set a complete bevel and work your way up. I feel like this should make things painfully obvious. Most woods at 400 feel pretty smooth. No wood I know of feels smooth at 60. And that first attempt before you really set the bevel doesn't fool anyone into appearing sharp even if the bevel is buttery smooth to the touch.

I'm sure this experiment would show you what happens when you sharpen edge first vs edge last too. With edge last I'm sure you get a furry little burr especially on a soft wood.

If you wanna keep going, find some wet dry paper and take it grit by grit to 4000. Sure it's smoother than 2500 and sure that's smoother than 1200 but is it really appreciably smoother and with how much work? I'm guessing by 800 or 1200 you're really slipping hairs. (I'm sure I'm not the only one that can't resist this pun around here. )

When I was younger I did hardwood floors and I certainly learned you really had to go through all the grits or you where just making more work for yourself or making a floor covered in scratch marks. Over doing it just leaves less floor to refinish later.

Same deal really.

As a woodworker of many years who thinks power tools are the devil's work, I can safely say I've sharpened the equivalent of thousands of razors. That is in the form of planes, chisels, saws, augers, drill bits, scrapers, etc. Not to mention the razors in my meager collection. The tools may be different, but the concept is the same.

Tony, man pm me if you've got any tips on sharpening inside bevel gouges. I've gotta dig up a cone and some slips still. Honestly I'm a little intimidated by the cone and sharpening something not flat.

There is an easier way, pm sent.

Originally Posted by TonyFranciozi

As a woodworker of many years who thinks power tools are the devil's work, I can safely say I've sharpened the equivalent of thousands of razors. That is in the form of planes, chisels, saws, augers, drill bits, scrapers, etc. Not to mention the razors in my meager collection. The tools may be different, but the concept is the same.

Ahhhhhhhh, now it all makes sense, thanks for the clarification...

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Ahhhhhhhh, now it all makes sense, thanks for the clarification...

Not sure what that cleared up, but sure, no problem.

Originally Posted by Jimbo

...the common historically observed pattern is that they stop too soon and continue up the grits to produce a highly polished and very smooth dull edge...

This thread is becoming very informative. So, pray tell, how do we know when a bevel is set? I (probably foolishly) use 800 or 1000 wet and dry. When that shaves leg hair very 'nicely' (I have no arm hair to speak of) I then start my 4/8 pyramids (I generally find pyramids constrain me, without them I 'just do stuff'). I have no loupe, though I am slightly loopy...

I know that's a very fundamental question re. the bevel, just thought I'd get an opinion...

BTW, this is a thought provoking statement, sums up the whole sharp Vs smooth thing really...

Originally Posted by Jimbo

...I find it difficult to believe that the maximum width between two sides, and the makeup of the sides themselves can be considered by anyone to be an artificial distinction.

I have sharpened things since I was around 11 or 12, my grandfather taught me how and I always loved knives and sharp things. I went on to work in a packing house after I got out of the Navy cutting up 4000 hogs a day. Without bravado, I kept one of the sharpest knives in the plant and taught alot of guys how to do that. That being said, a razor takes a completely different skillset to hone. The only advantage is that kinda like Forrest, 'I know what sharp is...'. You know what sharp is, but half the fun is learning how to get there with different hones, strokes, and techniques.

Take a sharp and smooth razor and give it 10 light x strokes on a 4k (or coarser if you like).

Is it now dull? Only if your strokes have very poor form...but it is now not as smooth.