Thread: How sharp do you like it?

Originally Posted by LikesBBS

Just wanted to see how sharp of an edge folks around here like to shave with IE off an 8k, 12k, 16k, pastes etc. And anything they notice as they move up in grit. Really hoping some guru's will chime in and show us what they like as a superb edge.

I'm not a guru by any means, but my original setup was a Norton 4K/8K, plus a 12000 grit Chinese stone from a quarry in Guanxi province (sorry, can't remember where I got it). Norton sells a stone that enables you to create slurry (a milky watery-stone combination) on the 12K stone. I got a D8C made by the DMT company for lapping purposes. Lapping means making sure the surface of the stones stay flat after honing a razor.

Some months back I got some Shapton hones and I just fell in love with them. The set consists of a 500, 1K, 4K, 8K, and 16K. These are artificial stones rather than natural materials and I have been able to get more predictable results from them, which is what I think you are trying to ask about. You lap them after honing a razor like you do the natural stones.

It's hard to be more specific than that, because results are a function of the user's experience and the condition of the razor to be honed. Perhaps after my experience with the Shaptons I might get better results with my original setup.

I do think 12K and 16K are such fine grades that they probably do the same job.

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Wow I think you just said YMMV

Of course I did, but I tried to be nice about it.

Originally Posted by gssixgun

BTW the answer is actually in his hands already,, The Norton 1-4-8
I (and most everyone with experience) can produce a Comfortable shaving edge on those 99/100 times... the one being a possible bad blade..
Above that level (Naniwa 1,3,8 Shapton 1,4,8 etc: etc) is just icing on the cake and until it is just that, no amount of Money or Stone will help the edge, hence we call the icing

I couldn't agree more. No worthwhile amount of honing on a high grit stone is going to make up for a bevel that isn't set, and progressing past the 8k level prematurely is couter productive.

Originally Posted by myersn024

Of course I did, but I tried to be nice about it.



I couldn't agree more. No worthwhile amount of honing on a high grit stone is going to make up for a bevel that isn't set, and progressing past the 8k level prematurely is couter productive.

Basically all the OP needs to do is stop asking and instead get to honing.
Practice makes perfect. Once perfection has been achieved with the Nortons, then one can start thinking about greener pastures of the stone world if one so desires. Other wise it all becomes one expensive mistake, to correct.

Originally Posted by mainaman

Basically all the OP needs to do is stop asking and instead get to honing.
Practice makes perfect. Once perfection has been achieved with the Nortons, then one can start thinking about greener pastures of the stone world if one so desires. Other wise it all becomes one expensive mistake, to correct.

I speculate that the reason he's asked the question in the first place was to try and decide which way to go with his next hone purchase. I know that was an decision that I agonized over for quite some time after getting my Nortons. It took quite a while to realize the truth behind Glen's statement about everything else being icing on the cake. But I'll take the analogy one step further and liken shaving with an 8k edge to eating uniced pound cake. Sure, it's good, but it could be so much better....

The JaNorton thread has tons of good reading also. Once you get great edges with the Nortons you can move on to the next level.

As most gentlemen here pointed out, sharp is not enough. Smoothness is as important as sharpness.
That's what I was thinking when I started HADing. "Find the best, sharpest stone, and here you are". But somewhere along the way I noticed, there are plenty of old, and new, British slates, Jnats and others, that can give you that made-up legendary HHT6★ (6★, that is, if you blink at the hair and then look at the razor, the hair splits itself, spilling hair guts everywhere). But they were not smooth.
You can't enjoy a shave if it feels like you are sanding your face, even if it passes every test that exists for testing a sharp edge. Everybody prefers the edge that is so smooth, it seems like it doesn't even touch your face.
You have to try both of them to tell the difference. And, that smoothness part, like it's "grit", depends from stone to stone. Some are fine and smooth. Others, aren't. Personally, I think that, the sharper the edge-finer the stone, the harsher it will possibly be. There are always exceptions, but that's what I generally think for finishers.
So, if you are looking for a fine stone, go for a smooth natural, or, well, since I don't have experience with man made stones, listen to what the guys that have say.
And, you can buy experience! Buying a stone means testing it. Then, you read. Then buy another. After you understand what bevel is and how to set it correctly, compare what you already have. Then learn how to strop, if you are a HAD guy. And, there you have it, experience! What you don't like, you can always sell it. But not in a higher price than you bought it, that's the rule.

Well I add my two cents,

I do hone my and some other people razors for some time and I can tell that with my personal razors I do come back and re hone them again, and again using different stones, technique and finishers. Results are mostly similar to previous but sometimes I will gain in the blade smoothness and sharpness I have desire. Then this razor will end up in box as mark"not for sell, do not touch" and I will be using them until I really need to be re honed. So in fact this is quite of art. In order to get the great edge on any razor. Fact is that many times I was disappointed with some of highly recommended brand not because they called Filarmonica, DD or other but because they steel was not as expected. Not a brand, just razor steel. From the other side I was many times suppressed by brands I have never heard about as their steel were fantastic and I tent to keep these razors.

Sharp on one razor does not mean sharp on other. One technique does not apply to all. Smooth is not the same smooth on water and oil finisher.

I've got the honing part figured out, but what is the best grit for breadknifing?

I’m not going to speak for LikesBBS, but I think the reason why a lot of these posts sound the same is because the specifics are often left out. We say that a person has to learn to get a good edge with a 1, 4, 8 combination and I accept this as true. But what is often not communicated is HOW you do this. I often compare learning to hone to my experiences learning to cook. The chefs that taught me what I know mostly came from France, spoke SOME English, and had varied ability to convey their knowledge. When a student would ask the honing equivalent of “how many passes are required on X stone”, or in cooking terms “how long do you cook that?”, the answer was similar to the YMMV we often offer up. If you were dealing with a nice chef, he’d simply say “you cook it until its done”. If he was a smart a$$, he’d say something like “you put it in a 600 degree oven for 8 hours until its completely black and then you know that its done”. True story, BTW. I remember making hollandaise sauce during these first few days. The chef would say that you need to cook the egg before you add the butter. But saying you need to cook the egg or cook something until its done does not convey what the student needs to know. The key was telling them HOW to determine doneness. In the case of the egg, one of the better teachers of the group broke it down for them. He told them to cook it over the flame, whisking constantly until it begins to thicken, then remove it from the heat to slow things down some. And when the egg is thick and the whisk steams, you know you’re ready to add the butter. As I continue to learn about this, I often ask questions that are the equivalent of asking how I know when something is done. And I ask this of a few of you who are patient enough to try to answer these questions for me (you know who you are, thanks again). So when a new guy is asking how many x strokes are needed at a certain level, what he’s really asking is, “how do I know when its done?”. I guess sometimes the answer is YMMV, but if you know that the egg needs to thicken and whisk needs to show steam, tell him that.

Ya, I hear ya Bob. Even with a new cartridge I still feel tug on a few areas and my SR is actually providing less tug than that atm. Had it in my mind tht there was a possibility in getting a razor to 0 tug since there's so many lengths in sharpening a blade, but now realize only so many comfortable ones. And that OCD bit ... ya lol ... it can take things farther than they need to be - like my sanding project

I heard Lynn once shaved with a blade of grass

And gssixgun once honed the claws on a cornered wolverine to a mirror finish, in the middle of January while it hadn't eaten in a month and was protecting it's babies using only a nortons 8k that he lapped on on a rock - true story.