Thread: How sharp do you like it?

Originally Posted by LikesBBS

And the idea of holding the hone in your hand sounds very tempting. But my NSS12k has a stupid plastic stand stuck to it. Maybe I'll try with 8k for giggles.

Definitely give it a shot. With the exception of my 1k while bevel settings, I hold all my hones. It helps when working with bades that have geometry that's a little funny. That way you can manipulate the blade as well as the hone.

Originally Posted by jcline

As an interesting aside, does anyone else tend to put the stones flat on your hand instead of laying it flat on the table? I've taken to doing this for my last few strokes at least. I feel it improves the feedback I can get from the stone and allows me to hold the razor in a more natural way. I doubt I would use this technique with my kitchen or pocket knives but it seems to work really well to top things off.


Man... I talk toooo much sometimes.

This thread has grown legs, That's good!

Hand held honing, Yes, I do. Depends on the hone, The 7x1.5 Escher alsmost all the time. Every once in a while, if I'm tired from honing, I'll lay it on top of another hone. Small Coticules too, like 6x2's (150x50) for our friends across the pond.

I do know exactly what you mean about the feedback aspect of it. The Shapton GS series can be held to, they're relatively light weight, and currently my weapon of choice. I use different finishers on different steels. I find Sheffields respond very well to my Nakayama Asagi (Maruichi)

Anyone else prefer certain finishers on certain steels?

Originally Posted by TonyFranciozi

Why so much discussion on the difference between smoothness and sharpness? They are one and the same. A razor that feels sharp but not smooth has an imperfect edge, period.

I keep thinking about this. I thought from the start sharper is smoother... so long as the bevel's right and the finish is even. When I first started I noticed tug... lot's... and I'm shaving the same as before but getting the blade sharper each time, and sharpening it myself. It feels better the sharper it's getting. I can understand in a sense that if it's really sharp t can be harsh, but at the same time could that really just be lack of consideration for technique whilst shaving? I mean if you have a dull axe you know to swing it hard... where as if you just sharpened it... the weight is enough. Same as if your using a freshly sharpened razor... lighter touch from your normal right?

I mean, take a cartridge for example... after each use.. more tug and irritation since it's dulling. Same as a Straight but they get stropped so it's edge is being prolonged.

I think my next experiment after a few more shaves with the NSS12k... is to keep going up and see how I like it.

TO THE MOON!

Nice thread. I think I've learned more from the answers to this "unanswerable question", than from from a lot of other reading.

Smooth and sharp are really not one and the same. They are interrelated but they are not synonymous.

Sharp is how close you can make the two sides come together. Smooth is related to the topography of those two sides. Yes, I think the latter will improve the former but that doesn't mean they are the same thing. It is possible (and indeed not uncommon) to have a very smooth razor that will not shave anything because it is not sharp. An extreme example - breadknife a razor and then run it over a CrOxed strop for 1000 laps and see what you get.

Yes, I understand the point - a "good" edge is a good edge. Why bother with these distinctions? The reason is to draw attention to the idea that bevel setting is the foundation. So many new users just want to know about the finishing stones or pastes as the way to get a good shave off a straight. I (and others) have been watching it over and over for the past 7 years on this and other forums. Frustration always ensues because in effect they are trying to create, say, a violin by using sandpaper directly on a tree.

So we highlight the difference between sharp and smooth to help people visualise the honing process, and hopefully make them understand that without the grunt work (bevel setting for sharpness) they are doomed to failure on the higher polishing grits (smoothness).

James.

Just to add the next step to Jimbo's excellent post...

After all that edge work, many take it TOO far and figure if one is good two is better.. You will see posts from new honers stacking Finishers at the end trying to get more and more out of it, when there is only so much to give...

Originally Posted by zib

You ever see Glen's cat? He hones a lot.....

You only got so much arm hair

Personally I look at anything above 8k as a finisher regardless. I love my Nani 12k, but I would like to try mike's zulu at some point, and the nubutama bamboo 15k. I figure as long as the grit or the nati stone isn't more than double the 8k grit there's no need to stack the 12k and 15k or 12k, 15k or 16k and 30k. I say 8k, 12k stop. 8k, 16k, 30k stop. or 8k, natural stop. Just me though.

I'll jump on this thread. I hone my razor based on the kind of steel it is (or what kind of steel I assume it is). My harder steel razors I finish on Charnley Forest. My sheffields and softer steel razors get finished on the thuringian. Everything in between gets done on a NSS 10k.

Originally Posted by Jimbo

Sharp is how close you can make the two sides come together. Smooth is related to the topography of those two sides.
James.

If the topography of the two sides is not smooth, then the edge they make when they meet will not be sharp, it will be rough and jagged. It may feel sharp because it cuts hair perfectly well, but it is not truly sharp. Sharpness has be defined as two surfaces meeting at a line of zero width. Such an edge is not possible (with today's technology) but hypothetically, it stands to reason that if those two surfaces are not smooth the edge they create will not have zero width, and thus will not be truly sharp.

I think that when people talk about smooth and sharp they may think they are talking about the physical state of the edge, but they are really describing how the razor feels when they shave with it. Those are two completely different concepts, and novice honers would be better served if they understood that, as opposed to thinking about honing in terms of artificial distinctions that are confusing. At least they confuse me, lol.