Thread: "Dip-at-toe" stubtails 18th century

Originally Posted by altus

Razors in silversteel are posterior to 1822.

On the Alloys of Steel by J. Stodart and M. Faraday
Philosophical Transactions of the Royal Society of London
Vol. 112 (1822), pp. 253-270

Good point, missed that

Need your help guys:
Found this, thinking about putting in a bid. Let me know if you guys want me to move this to it's own thread or smthg...

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/Antique-1790...l/113816000548

Couple of questions:
1. That IS a dip-at-toe right? did i finally find one "in the wild"? lol, I'm so bad at spotting it still.
2. Whatsup with the "straight plain wood" scales...never seen one like that before.
3. That chip made me think: is THIS why a lot of the really old blades I see have a sort of "dip" near the heel? i.e the blade itself is thinner than the heel/shoulder or whatever (cuz u can't grind the heel/shoulder) and it make a little dip where the cutting edge stops, so the edge make a sharp turn in the direction of the cutting edge before meeting the heel? (sorry if i'm describing this badly).
4. I think i saw one other picture of a 'G. Smith' on this forum and in the directory... "George Smith & Sons, Peacroft"?

Definitely has a dip, though the toe looks really rotten at the edge. The scales aren’t original. The heel to tang junction is pretty typical for a blade of that era.

+1 for the scales being homemade replacements (common for razors of this age). This one has very little wear for its age (hone wear or grinding) but has seen a lot of rust. The maker is Georgius Smith (different from George Smith), and appears only in Sketchley 1774 and not Gales & Martin 1787.

Originally Posted by jfk742

Definitely has a dip, though the toe looks really rotten at the edge. The scales aren’t original. The heel to tang junction is pretty typical for a blade of that era.

oh i actually meant that other blades in this thread have a heel to tang junction that isn't straight, i always wondered about why that is. Rotten toe doesn't sound good. Is it recoverable? Depending on how much work it'll require it may not be worth $110? I was honestly thinking of trying my own hand at it (making it shave ready)...maybe not for newbie then? lol

Originally Posted by ScienceGuy

+1 for the scales being homemade replacements (common for razors of this age). This one has very little wear for its age (hone wear or grinding) but has seen a lot of rust. The maker is Georgius Smith (different from George Smith), and appears only in Sketchley 1774 and not Gales & Martin 1787.

Oh it *is* Georgius smith? huh, I misread the Sketchleys then...OH i see it now, there's a line right before the George smith one. Would you keep the scales? Interesting though, now I'm curious to know when and who made the scales.

Originally Posted by Tjh

oh i actually meant that other blades in this thread have a heel to tang junction that isn't straight, i always wondered about why that is. Rotten toe doesn't sound good. Is it recoverable? Depending on how much work it'll require it may not be worth $110? I was honestly thinking of trying my own hand at it (making it shave ready)...maybe not for newbie then? lol

Oh it *is* Georgius smith? huh, I misread the Sketchleys then...OH i see it now, there's a line right before the George smith one. Would you keep the scales? Interesting though, now I'm curious to know when and who made the scales.

For the heel to tang junction, if I understand correctly, you need to look at near pristine razors - those will generally have a smooth transition. Ones that are very honed or ground will not. See here for an example:



The razor is probably recoverable but there may be more of the blade eaten away at the edge than appears. I would probably not attack it without experience. This opinion is not widely shared, but if it were mine I would probably trash the scales and replace with something either from the period or remade in the proper style. Personally, I would probably grab this one if I didn't already have one. Georgius Smith razors don't come up too often.

Originally Posted by ScienceGuy

For the heel to tang junction, if I understand correctly, you need to look at near pristine razors - those will generally have a smooth transition. Ones that are very honed or ground will not. See here for an example:



The razor is probably recoverable but there may be more of the blade eaten away at the edge than appears. I would probably not attack it without experience. This opinion is not widely shared, but if it were mine I would probably trash the scales and replace with something either from the period or remade in the proper style. Personally, I would probably grab this one if I didn't already have one. Georgius Smith razors don't come up too often.

My thoughts were exactly that regarding the rarity and scales. I really do hate to do it, but I do not trust those scales, and it just looks weird. Maybe i can find some trashed razors from that age with good enough scales? That's still unlikely, in all my hunting I haven't seen it yet.

Also: good GOD, "shoulderless age" razors are SO RARE. And dip-at-toes even more so.

Regarding the edge, i was thinking about like this one that fikira posted:

Originally Posted by Fikira

First one:

Attachment 199670

See that the edge curves in? I was always wondering why, and it occured to me that it may be because of honing it down to such a level..which is what you're saying as well then.

Originally Posted by Tjh

See that the edge curves in? I was always wondering why, and it occured to me that it may be because of honing it down to such a level..which is what you're saying as well then.

That's just wear from grinding over the years. They would have looked similar to the above originally.

Hi,

I just got hold of this dip-toe, and try to find out more. It has anchor and below that some letters.

Anyone's got a clue?

Could be:

..ICH
...ICK
..TCK
..TCH
and perhaps an R or an B before that:
..RICH
...RICK
..BICK
..BICH

1787 Gales & Martin Directory