Thread: "Rodgers Cutler to Their Majesty.." Date?

Im going to throw a wrench in the spinning wheel, how do we know that this razor is a "Joseph Rodgers and sons", not from the tang stamp! No star or maltese cross!

Joseph Rodgers and Sons were pretty aware of others using their famous cutlery name, and made people aware in advertisement and publication.

There were also other Rodgers cutlers in that time frame.

That is an interesting twist. Read there has been quite a bit of Joseph Rodgers trademark litigation over the years. Didn't find much in the 1820-30s time frame though. But this could very well fit into that category as a JR "knockoff". Hopefully some other experts will weigh in on this one.
Put some metal polish on the tang and posted a new picture that shows something above the lettering. Not sure what it is but looks like it could be remnants of a trademark? Or not. Also, could only make out the first line as "Rodgers Cu....." Could have been Co. or Cu...?
Haven't seen any other examples of tangs stamped like this one and that does leave me suspicious.
Thanks for the additional input on this and hopefully with this better picture others will chime in. AJ

Looks like there were a number of razor makers with the surname "Rodgers" working in Sheffield Full A to Z list of Razor Manufacturers & their Dates of Operations from which to choose. Gets pretty confusing.

Bob

Originally Posted by Tripoli3

As I recall from researching my blade.. "Rodgers Cutler to Their Majesty" means it was made between 1837 and 1901 during Queen Victoria's reign. After her husband died in 1901 they changed the logo to: "Rodgers Cutler to Her Majesty"...

Just to clarify a bit: Queen Victoria's husband, Albert, died in 1861. She was so heart broken that she decreed that the Royal Household would always be referred to as: "Their Majesties". QUEEN VICTORIA DIED in 1901, after which Edward became King and logo's were changed to reflect this: "To His Majesty".

Here's a pic of an old 'Rodgers with the G Crown R ( George Regent) stamp' circa 1821+

I don't think anyone would have dared to include "Cutlers To Their Majesties" in the tang stamp even if they were trying to cut in on Rogers territory. That would have been a bit too close to duplicate if they wanted to avoid litigation.

The first photos in the OP make me date it in the same ballpark as johnmrson did. In "Collecting Straight Razors", author Robert Doyle says that the scales went from being straight sided, as the two stub tail shown below, to having a 'slight curve', as the razor in the OP does in the early 1800s. So assuming the scales are original that is where I would think it would be.

As far as being a "stub tail", maybe I am prejudiced but I think that term is used too loosely nowadays. The two razors, one a Rogers Cast Steel, below, are sure enough stub tails. As the monkey tail began to be elongated it stopped being in the stub tail category AFAIC. Also the absence of a distinction between the edge and tang were characteristics of true stub tails IMHO ........... YMMV.

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

I don't think anyone would have dared to include "Cutlers To Their Majesties" in the tang stamp even if they were trying to cut in on Rogers territory. That would have been a bit too close to duplicate if they wanted to avoid litigation.

The first photos in the OP make me date it in the same ballpark as johnmrson did. In "Collecting Straight Razors", author Robert Doyle says that the scales went from being straight sided, as the two stub tail shown below, to having a 'slight curve', as the razor in the OP does in the early 1800s. So assuming the scales are original that is where I would think it would be.

As far as being a "stub tail", maybe I am prejudiced but I think that term is used too loosely nowadays. The two razors, one a Rogers Cast Steel, below, are sure enough stub tails. As the monkey tail began to be elongated it stopped being in the stub tail category AFAIC. Also the absence of a distinction between the edge and tang were characteristics of true stub tails IMHO ........... YMMV.

I agree with your and johnmrson's date estimate, but am not sure if this is the original set of scales. They are certainly very early horn. Also agree with your comments about stub tails. Your examples are classic stub tails. Mine is late in the stub tail period. I'd even call it transitional. Believe this period goes to the early 1830s from what I have read in this forum. I have a similar early 1800s cast steel Rodgers as yours that is a favorite.

Don't want get too far into stubtail discussions on this string just hope I can identify someone who has a knowledge of this particular stamp and can tell me if it is part of the "Joseph Rodgers, cutlers to His/their majesties" or is this one a knockoff/fake from the period? Again, I have never seen any other examples in this forum or other SR forums that have a tang marking (razor or knife blade) attributable to JR that this marked exactly like this one? Has anyone else seen this before?

Originally Posted by ajkenne

I agree with your and johnmrson's date estimate, but am not sure if this is the original set of scales. They are certainly very early horn. Also agree with your comments about stub tails. Your examples are classic stub tails. Mine is late in the stub tail period. I'd even call it transitional. Believe this period goes to the early 1830s from what I have read in this forum. I have a similar early 1800s cast steel Rodgers as yours that is a favorite.

Don't want get too far into stubtail discussions on this string just hope I can identify someone who has a knowledge of this particular stamp and can tell me if it is part of the "Joseph Rodgers, cutlers to His/their majesties" or is this one a knockoff/fake from the period? Again, I have never seen any other examples in this forum or other SR forums that have a tang marking (razor or knife blade) attributable to JR that this marked exactly like this one? Has anyone else seen this before?

If you could post a photo of your Rogers Cast Steel I'd love to see it. Since there was more than one Rogers making razors at that time I've always wondered whether mine was by Joseph or some other Rogers. Guess I'll never know.

I can't imagine your "Cutlers To" Rogers would be anything but a true Joseph Rogers. Regardless of there being other Rogers making razors in that time frame, none AFAIK, stamped that bit of info on their tangs. Many Rogers have been posted here and none, in any condition, had that stamped on the tang that was not a JR.

I cannot tell from the photo, but do the pins at the pivot look to be original ? Scales look to me to be from the early 1800s and I agree with you that the monkey tail/tang look transitional. The thickness/taper is what catches my eye.

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

If you could post a photo of your Rogers Cast Steel I'd love to see it. Since there was more than one Rogers making razors at that time I've always wondered whether mine was by Joseph or some other Rogers. Guess I'll never know.

I can't imagine your "Cutlers To" Rogers would be anything but a true Joseph Rogers. Regardless of there being other Rogers making razors in that time frame, none AFAIK, stamped that bit of info on their tangs. Many Rogers have been posted here and none, in any condition, had that stamped on the tang that was not a JR.

I cannot tell from the photo, but do the pins at the pivot look to be original ? Scales look to me to be from the early 1800s and I agree with you that the monkey tail/tang look transitional. The thickness/taper is what catches my eye.

The pins at the pivot and wedge do look like they are original to me, thick round and smooth. Certainly there has been some additional tightening up pinning over the years, probably the reason for the damage to one side of the scale at the pivot end.

Photo of my cast steel "Rodgers" follows which in fact looks like a "Roberts" to me, hard to tell. A nice old stubtail nonetheless. Original scales on this old beauty (C. 1800?) for sure, IMHO. As requested AJ

Originally Posted by ajkenne

The pins at the pivot and wedge do look like they are original to me, thick round and smooth. Certainly there has been some additional tightening up pinning over the years, probably the reason for the damage to one side of the scale at the pivot end.

Photo of my cast steel "Rodgers" follows which in fact looks like a "Roberts" to me, hard to tell. A nice old stubtail nonetheless. Original scales on this old beauty (C. 1800?) for sure, IMHO. As requested AJ

FYI... Goins mentions a "Josh Roberts Cast Steel" circa 1825-1850

I have a Blade that looks about the same and If I remember I was told that it was 1820ish 1830 or some were in there it has a G crown R and says Cutlers to HIS Majesty