Thread: Tamahagane Question

I believe vintage Iwasaki western style straight razors are Rockwell 67, even the modern knife maker from Japan Rockstead make some of their knives using carbon steel with a rockwell hardness of 66.

Originally Posted by mike1011

I'm no razor making expert but I'd have to agree with jimmyHAD, barring full wedges I think a 65HRC hollow ground blade would just chip/break.

There must be a reason why manufacturers don't temper to that degree of hardness because getting a carbon or stainless (H1 and ZDP189 to name but two stainless steels) would be no problem at all.

Beyond having a really cool name tamahagane steel isn't really very special at all. In fact in its raw form its actually very poor and requires extensive processing by folding to get it into a use able form. In its day it was a pretty impressive feat to be able to produce it, a bit like the ulfbert Viking swords which were made from crucible steel (after the Vikings this type of steel would not be seen again in Europe for 1000 years).

I beleive that tamahagane steel is only made so that the Japanese can keep their old traditions alive and for that I applaud them but by today's standards its nothing special at all, you could order a Bit of steel today for very little money which is capable of reaching 65HRC and over.

Tamahagane is special because it allows you to make a razor at very high hardness with no chipping issues. It takes time to hone correctly but not extraordinarily long time.
I have honed two Western Tamahagane Iwasakis so far and I was more than impressed with the steel. This is really one of those things that one has to try to fully appreciate it.

Originally Posted by celticcrusader

I believe vintage Iwasaki western style straight razors are Rockwell 67, even the modern knife maker from Japan Rockstead make some of their knives using carbon steel with a rockwell hardness of 66.

They vary, each was individually tested and the hardness is printed on the box.

Originally Posted by celticcrusader

I believe vintage Iwasaki western style straight razors are Rockwell 67, even the modern knife maker from Japan Rockstead make some of their knives using carbon steel with a rockwell hardness of 66.

Yeah, each Rockstead is tested individually.
My three are 66.3, 66.7 and 67.1
They are quite alright to hone, nothing too special about that.

Originally Posted by Birnando

Yeah, each Rockstead is tested individually.
My three are 66.3, 66.7 and 67.1
They are quite alright to hone, nothing too special about that.

Three huh? Feel free to send one my way so you don't have all that treasure in one place. That's not safe

Originally Posted by mike1011

...Beyond having a really cool name tamahagane steel isn't really very special at all. In fact in its raw form its actually very poor and requires extensive processing by folding to get it into a use able form. In its day it was a pretty impressive feat to be able to produce it, a bit like the ulfbert Viking swords which were made from crucible steel (after the Vikings this type of steel would not be seen again in Europe for 1000 years).

I beleive that tamahagane steel is only made so that the Japanese can keep their old traditions alive and for that I applaud them but by today's standards its nothing special at all, you could order a Bit of steel today for very little money which is capable of reaching 65HRC and over.

It is true. Tamahagane is a very plain steel, nearly entirely only iron and carbon. There were some alloys with vanadium and titanium but those were accidental and related to the ore source rather than metal chemistry manipulation. No one knew anything about what chemistry made those blades special, but the end-users did notice some performance differences and the smiths reputation gained as a result.

Tamahagane as smelted averages a carbon content between 1.4-1.6%. Much to high for most blades. I would have said that Iwasaki was good in that he didn't burn out so much carbon, not that he was able to control the addition of carbon. But, he knew how to if he wanted. Charcoal fires are remarkably tune-able and a good smith can do very interesting things to steel in one of them. A typical nihonto is somewhere between 0.6-0.7% carbon as dictated by tradition. Hamon are better in that range and more survive that brutal water quench. The reality is that the smith averages the carbon content downward from what is smelted.

If anyone wants the razor i was hiding is here
U198 RARE J apanese Straight Razor Sword New Kaou | eBay

I see a razor by same smith, similar condition going for $200 so someone should swoop that. I decided to upgrade, about to post thread.

Originally Posted by HunterHagan

If anyone wants the razor i was hiding is here
U198 RARE J apanese Straight Razor Sword New Kaou | eBay

I see a razor by same smith, similar condition going for $200 so someone should swoop that. I decided to upgrade, about to post thread.

How is that related to the topic of Tamahagane?

It's related to my other post.
It's MY thread.
The thread was about me choosing a kamisori, and their different hardness, not really tamahagane at all.


It has plenty to do with the REAL topic. So please, go away.

Originally Posted by HunterHagan

It's related to my other post.
It's MY thread.
The thread was about me choosing a kamisori, and their different hardness, not really tamahagane at all.


It has plenty to do with the REAL topic. So please, go away.

You sure are a nice guy.

In your OP you say

My question is in regards to tamahagane razors by lesser/unknown smiths(the ones we can afford). What rockwell hardness is your average tamahagane kamisori style razor?

What you linked is not one of them, thus my question above.
If you like to argue I am all for it, but I think you have a lot to learn before you are qualified.