Thread: Wade & Butcher Comeback

Thanks for the update, Michael! The deep engraving does look very good, and what you're saying about the custom, branded fittings is extremely appealing to me. The last razors I know of that used anything like that were John Fox's custom logo embossed washers in the 1780's.

I absolutely see the sense of targeting the inaugural product to the diehard collectors, but I feel like it's out of step with the history of the brand.

I have never seen a single Wade & Butcher branded razor that was as fancy as the fanciest Sheffield razors. Many of them were undoubtedly quite beautiful, and there were a wide, wide range of styles some of which were fancier than others, but none ever approached the ornamentation (and, let's face it, pure veblen flourish) of the highest-end Joseph Rodgers.

William and Samuel barely advertised. They didn't have a fancy showroom, or court royal appointments. The great majority of their sales came in through traveling salesmen. Robert Wade's son Robert wrangled those salesmen in America, and is a contributing factor to the incredible number of old W&B razors to be found here. But by and large, the razors of Wade & Butcher were aimed squarely at the lower-to-medium end of the market.

So it seems weird to me to have only an ultra-premium razor with the resurrected brand. It would make perfect sense to me as one of multiple options.

Is there any reason to not offer less expensive materials as well? Pewter, horn, and brass packaged in paper-mache can be very beautiful and last for hundreds of years.

Personally, I can imagine spending what's been proposed on a razor (I attempted to send that much on a pair of Joseph Rodgers razors, but was outbid), but it would have to be perfectly to my taste. I don't know that the Irontusk won't be, but I also don't know that it will be.

Originally Posted by Voidmonster

Thanks for the update, Michael! The deep engraving does look very good, and what you're saying about the custom, branded fittings is extremely appealing to me. The last razors I know of that used anything like that were John Fox's custom logo embossed washers in the 1780's.

I absolutely see the sense of targeting the inaugural product to the diehard collectors, but I feel like it's out of step with the history of the brand.

I have never seen a single Wade & Butcher branded razor that was as fancy as the fanciest Sheffield razors. Many of them were undoubtedly quite beautiful, and there were a wide, wide range of styles some of which were fancier than others, but none ever approached the ornamentation (and, let's face it, pure veblen flourish) of the highest-end Joseph Rodgers.

William and Samuel barely advertised. They didn't have a fancy showroom, or court royal appointments. The great majority of their sales came in through traveling salesmen. Robert Wade's son Robert wrangled those salesmen in America, and is a contributing factor to the incredible number of old W&B razors to be found here. But by and large, the razors of Wade & Butcher were aimed squarely at the lower-to-medium end of the market.

So it seems weird to me to have only an ultra-premium razor with the resurrected brand. It would make perfect sense to me as one of multiple options.

Is there any reason to not offer less expensive materials as well? Pewter, horn, and brass packaged in paper-mache can be very beautiful and last for hundreds of years.

Personally, I can imagine spending what's been proposed on a razor (I attempted to send that much on a pair of Joseph Rodgers razors, but was outbid), but it would have to be perfectly to my taste. I don't know that the Irontusk won't be, but I also don't know that it will be.

Thanks so much Zak for your, as always, level-headed insights. I truly respect and appreciate your commentary on this endeavour.

I just wanted to quickly speak to a few points you made and wonder if I can get your understanding/appreciation on this:

1. You can certainly say that the inaugural Irontusk razor is targeted at diehard collectors - the price bracket alone makes this true - but that this decision is 'out of step' (negatively) with the history of the brand I don't feel is a very useful point to make given that W&B historically never had the need of course to 're-launch' themselves in the present razor market we exist in. So while what you say is true, I don't feel it is an obviously 'bad' route to take to relaunch W&B, and I don't feel it is disruptive to its good name - rather the opposite, I feel it elevates the brand, and sets the tone for what is to come.
2. It is important for me to keep mentioning, that we are not trying to simply pick up where W&B left off. That would be foolish as indeed the company faultered somewhat and subsequently ceased operating.. obviously So it's not so simple as to think that we need to always align every step/decision so conformingly with what W&B previously did - that would bring about absolutely no innovation, and would not allow the brand to compete/evolve/improve as a modern heritage brand.
3. You are most correct, that it would be weird to ONLY have an ultra-premium razor on offer.. but that is simply not our intention at all. As said many times before, we will expand the catalogue quickly with many models all at differing price points. Will we have razors for $100? No. Again we aren't in the heydey of straight razor manufacture and use, churning out great numbers of blades selling for cents.. quite simply the brand's business model has evolved to a great degree, and I feel that this is warranted/needed to maintain the highest standards and respect the excellent name of W&B.
4. All this recent talk has however given us much to ponder in exactly how we handle the details of this inaugural razor launch - as indeed it needs to excite/delight the target audience or else it is rather meaningless.. So we are thinking about material choices, and as said stripping out the presentation case as a standalone product, all with the aim of getting the launch product's price down by a good sum..


Thanks again Zak for your comments, always appreciated.
Sincerely,
- Mike

PS. you've got a PM incoming, and I'm also sending to your email..

IMHO for a successful relaunch one should at least produce a significant number of good quality razors for everyday use. As soon as the relaunched brand is successful collectors will appreciate the brand and be willing to spend more on exhibition quality razors.
There's plenty very fancy looking razors and razor-shaped objects around that can be had for less than 100 USD.

Would anyone buy an exhibition quality Ferrari if there weren't a significant number of Ferraris on the road? I don't think so.

IMO the new relaunched Wade & Butcher razor is just a custom made straight razor which is amazingly overpriced and has absolutly zero collecting value. And why would you ever want to relaunche a brand like that. The old ones are fantastic. The handmade 'not faultless' design, grind, the not perfect letterstamping,... is what makes them so beautiful. Whether you put on special wedges and highly sofisticated pins or not...

I don't want to bash any of you people who are putting their work into these razors, but that's just my opinion.

If I could choose between a big old Wade & Butcher For barbers use in nice condition and these rejuvenated Wade & Butcher blades...I know which one I would choose.

Have there been any new W&B razors distributed yet? I'm definitely waiting until I have one in hand before I judge. It would be awesome to have access to a modern blade that carries the quality of the old W&B's. Call me optimistic, but looking forward to it!

When you look at the work and materials going in to the razor the price tag doesn't seem over the top, especially when you consider the package it comes in.

For me personally I will never be able to justify spending that much on one razor. Heck my entire collection isn't worth as much as that and I have some razors that I thought were expensive.

The thing is, that when I get something in a really nice package it does excite me, for a time. Then when I get to using the product and the package is just sat in a drawer somewhere I get buyers remorse pretty quickly and imagine what else I could have spent that money on.

I understand the desire to make the best razor you can, but I for one would really appreciate something with less packaging at a price I could consider. I would not buy one for the historical side of the name (and I hope that you make a name for yourselves), but a well crafted razor, is a well crafted razor whatever name is on it. I salute your vision and wish you all the very best and I truly hope that you are successful in this endeavour.

I look forward to seeing how the future unfolds, but it has been a long wait and I am really curious to see an actual razor some time soon.

Originally Posted by MichaelC

1. You can certainly say that the inaugural Irontusk razor is targeted at diehard collectors - the price bracket alone makes this true - but that this decision is 'out of step' (negatively) with the history of the brand I don't feel is a very useful point to make given that W&B historically never had the need of course to 're-launch' themselves in the present razor market we exist in. So while what you say is true, I don't feel it is an obviously 'bad' route to take to relaunch W&B, and I don't feel it is disruptive to its good name - rather the opposite, I feel it elevates the brand, and sets the tone for what is to come.
2. It is important for me to keep mentioning, that we are not trying to simply pick up where W&B left off. That would be foolish as indeed the company faultered somewhat and subsequently ceased operating.. obviously So it's not so simple as to think that we need to always align every step/decision so conformingly with what W&B previously did - that would bring about absolutely no innovation, and would not allow the brand to compete/evolve/improve as a modern heritage brand.
3. You are most correct, that it would be weird to ONLY have an ultra-premium razor on offer.. but that is simply not our intention at all. As said many times before, we will expand the catalogue quickly with many models all at differing price points. Will we have razors for $100? No. Again we aren't in the heydey of straight razor manufacture and use, churning out great numbers of blades selling for cents.. quite simply the brand's business model has evolved to a great degree, and I feel that this is warranted/needed to maintain the highest standards and respect the excellent name of W&B.
4. All this recent talk has however given us much to ponder in exactly how we handle the details of this inaugural razor launch - as indeed it needs to excite/delight the target audience or else it is rather meaningless.. So we are thinking about material choices, and as said stripping out the presentation case as a standalone product, all with the aim of getting the launch product's price down by a good sum..

Thanks for the updates Michael, and for the further details (e.g. I did not know about the case being inclusive to the original price). Clearly this is being thought out well and, moreso, you have taken criticism and input from the community.

As with Zak I have paid or pledged exorbitant sums for the *right razors that are exactly to my taste. Expensive is fine for an intro, as long as there is a customer base for it, and I'm really pleased that you're planning to continue production razors. And while the originals did not cost an arm and a leg in their day, the cheap children hired as workers by the original Butcher company surely lost arms and legs. So for good hand-made product nowadays there's really no option to be inexpensive.

Looking forward to seeing this finalized.

I am in the camp of being excited for the relaunch.

I don't want to just see new production of the old models, I want to see a modern take on the old styles.

I have no problem with the uber luxury iron tusk, I won't be buying one at that price but it's like the concept cars at auto shows, taking chances and making bold moves to push the envelope. The concept cars don't become mass marketed, but they serve a purpose. The more mainstream neat features trickle down to consumers.

So go ahead and make an iron tusk to get us all salivating and follow-up with something similar we can afford.

I do think, either way, keep the super fancy box as an upgrade, not a must-buy.

Secondly, how cool would it be to ship in a modern take on the coffin case?

When you sell a high end product the presentation is a vital part. If Patek sold a 15 grand watch and put it in a cheap plastic box they would turn off many buyers. Better to change the scale material and use a lessor material that is still highly finished and looks super to lower the price rather than cheapen the presentation.

You picked some big shoes to fill, and kudos to you for taking a shot at it. I know nothing about manufacturing and less about marketing, so I couldn't say a word about the route you're taking, but I hope you find enough success to modernize the classics and hopefully make a modern classic of your own.

I understand where a lot of comments in this thread are coming from, but I don't get why they keep coming. I'm not going to pretend I've always liked or even agreed with everyone or everything on here, but I've always thought of SRP as a tight community with an open and giving nature.




Man, I miss hanging out in Joe and Carrie's kitchen...