Thread: Wade & Butcher Comeback

My favorite straight is a 6/8" pre 1881 W&B hollow grind. It just feels good to use! I have other W&B blades that aren't even close to straight & the spine is not even close to being the same width the length of the razor. I have fixed a couple of them & they shave great now. I Love the steel in English razors but find the German ground razors have better QC in general.
Back on subject! "Sorry!" Anyone can buy a name & right's to what ever. If these new W&B razors meet the quality of the vintage razors why worry about it?? I am related to the Mappin family. I just might look into buying that name when I start making razors in the near future. I am related, why shouldn't I use the name to help my business if I want to? I agree a lot of names have been bought up & junk from China been sold under a good old brand. Think United Cutlery. A new Schrade knife is not one made in the US. Not even close. The thing about China is they can make a product with the quality you want to pay for. I prefer not to buy products made in China but you can't help it any more.Live & let live. we are just talking straight razors here, not war or atomic bombs. let's lighten up!

Slawman

So long as it's being done by someone who cares and understands the value of that mark I'm hopeful. Besides, even if a suit were running it, all it would take is a modicum of research to see how utterly rejected a shambolic, cookie cutter operation of 5/8 or 6/8 hollow ground round points would be... Not that there is anything wrong with a vanilla blade, but that's not what you buy into with almost any sheffield maker.

Originally Posted by kcb5150

So long as it's being done by someone who cares and understands the value of that mark I'm hopeful. Besides, even if a suit were running it, all it would take is a modicum of research to see how utterly rejected a shambolic, cookie cutter operation of 5/8 or 6/8 hollow ground round points would be... Not that there is anything wrong with a vanilla blade, but that's not what you buy into with almost any sheffield maker.

To be fair, the cookie-cutter high throughput industrial operation was already done under the Wade & Butcher name.

http://straightrazorpalace.com/razor...tml#post458787

It didn't take either, it went to the same heap the other proprietary blade de went.... Actually, to be fair, the wade and butcher de was a clever piece. The blade was thick and rigid in a pre-curved curved format. I used to have one but no idea where it is. The Segal razor is the only de that takes a weird blade I can think of that survived awhile but their day job was locks and keys so there was a fall back.

I'm going to try an analogy here and see what people think. Not so many years ago there was a British car marque - Rover - that went bust. Up until the last few models it was classed as a premium make so the name itself held some value and ended up in China along with some plant, tooling and equipment.

If the Chinese owners of the marque were to introduce a modern vehicle, assembled in the PRC but badged as Rover, does that car have any link to the vehicles built in Britain? There may be a partial link in that some machine tools may still be turning out parts - but that's about it for me. The link has been broken because the company stopped trading and no-one involved in the original enterprise is involved.

So, here's how I see the W&B current proposal - as a company W&B has not operated or traded for many years. The plan to make custom blades, albeit with a W&B influence, in South Africa using Swedish Steel, is no more to do with Wade & Butcher than if you ask one of the USA craftsmen to make the same blade. The connection was lost when the company stopped trading, I can't see that stamping the name on a blade brings that connection back.

I hope no-one sees this as criticism of Michael's plans - it's certainly not meant that way.

Originally Posted by UKRob

I'm going to try an analogy here and see what people think. Not so many years ago there was a British car marque - Rover - that went bust. Up until the last few models it was classed as a premium make so the name itself held some value and ended up in China along with some plant, tooling and equipment.

If the Chinese owners of the marque were to introduce a modern vehicle, assembled in the PRC but badged as Rover, does that car have any link to the vehicles built in Britain? There may be a partial link in that some machine tools may still be turning out parts - but that's about it for me. The link has been broken because the company stopped trading and no-one involved in the original enterprise is involved.

So, here's how I see the W&B current proposal - as a company W&B has not operated or traded for many years. The plan to make custom blades, albeit with a W&B influence, in South Africa using Swedish Steel, is no more to do with Wade & Butcher than if you ask one of the USA craftsmen to make the same blade. The connection was lost when the company stopped trading, I can't see that stamping the name on a blade brings that connection back.

I hope no-one sees this as criticism of Michael's plans - it's certainly not meant that way.

I was going to keep out of this, buuuuuut good sense was never my strong suit...

This post is exactly the way I look at this venture... Not to take anything away from the new venture or principals.. The auto dealers say there is a butt for every seat, just that it is not mine...

There is a sadness and desperation to all this. Try going back to the home of your childhood that you haven't been to in 40 years...jokes on you, that place doesn't exist anywhere other than in your mind.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, and unlike Jimmy have been wrong many times, but weren't a lot of razors, including at least some W&Bs, made from Swedish steel?

Originally Posted by UKRob

I'm going to try an analogy here and see what people think. Not so many years ago there was a British car marque - Rover - that went bust. Up until the last few models it was classed as a premium make so the name itself held some value and ended up in China along with some plant, tooling and equipment.

If the Chinese owners of the marque were to introduce a modern vehicle, assembled in the PRC but badged as Rover, does that car have any link to the vehicles built in Britain? There may be a partial link in that some machine tools may still be turning out parts - but that's about it for me. The link has been broken because the company stopped trading and no-one involved in the original enterprise is involved.

So, here's how I see the W&B current proposal - as a company W&B has not operated or traded for many years. The plan to make custom blades, albeit with a W&B influence, in South Africa using Swedish Steel, is no more to do with Wade & Butcher than if you ask one of the USA craftsmen to make the same blade. The connection was lost when the company stopped trading, I can't see that stamping the name on a blade brings that connection back.

I hope no-one sees this as criticism of Michael's plans - it's certainly not meant that way.

A fair point...to stick with automotive analogy I'll flip this one around to make a counter-point (and as a disclaimer, this is not meant in any way to start an arguement...just looking at your fair point from a different angle)..

Before WWII a company named Willys Overland created and marketed what would become the Jeep to the US Government based on a series of requirements issued for the war. Lots of companies submitted designs in the short time period allotted, and Willys won. When the contract was awarded, however, Willys only made a very small number of those vehicles and the design was licensed to lots of producers...on of whom eventually became known as Jeep (AM General) some time later. Fast forward again several decades later and the brand has been passed along, and while omnipresent in some form (unlike W&B which to be fair has not had a product in quite some time) the brand has changed hands numerous times. Production methods changed, designs were modernized. Chrysler bought the brand, Daimler bought Chrysler, and then spun it off again. All the while, the Jeep remained in spirit and design cues harkened back to the original Willys Overland in the form of an iconic grille design. Modern Jeeps are no more related to the original Willys than a custom, W&B stamped, new production razor would be related to an original FBU...but people will likely be drawn to them none the less.

Long story short, the new W&B could be similar in a lot of ways...many things have changed, but the opportunity to revive and maintain the iconic design, even if modernized a bit, is still a marketable and noble opportunity. I don't feel it cheapens the brand in the least...it just means it is evolving.

Originally Posted by Denvernoob

A fair point...to stick with automotive analogy I'll flip this one around to make a counter-point (and as a disclaimer, this is not meant in any way to start an arguement...just looking at your fair point from a different angle)..

Before WWII a company named Willys Overland created and marketed what would become the Jeep to the US Government based on a series of requirements issued for the war. Lots of companies submitted designs in the short time period allotted, and Willys won. When the contract was awarded, however, Willys only made a very small number of those vehicles and the design was licensed to lots of producers...on of whom eventually became known as Jeep (AM General) some time later. Fast forward again several decades later and the brand has been passed along, and while omnipresent in some form (unlike W&B which to be fair has not had a product in quite some time) the brand has changed hands numerous times. Production methods changed, designs were modernized. Chrysler bought the brand, Daimler bought Chrysler, and then spun it off again. All the while, the Jeep remained in spirit and design cues harkened back to the original Willys Overland in the form of an iconic grille design. Modern Jeeps are no more related to the original Willys than a custom, W&B stamped, new production razor would be related to an original FBU...but people will likely be drawn to them none the less.

Long story short, the new W&B could be similar in a lot of ways...many things have changed, but the opportunity to revive and maintain the iconic design, even if modernized a bit, is still a marketable and noble opportunity. I don't feel it cheapens the brand in the least...it just means it is evolving.

You're absolutely correct!

And the current "Jeep" brand is no more a Jeep than I am the Prince of Wales... But, unfortunately I'm old enough to remember the old Jeeps!