Thread: What are the main difference between Vintage and modern steels?

I know this has been discussed a lot before but I still have some questions and can't find an answer in the forums...

I've been honing modern day Dovos, Bokers, Wackers, and they get an edge very quickly. Very easy to hone. Never had any problem whatsoever getting them shave ready.

Vintage blades that I've honed, some have been easier others not so much. A vintage Wacker was more of a challenge than a new Wacker Jungmeister very recently; especially at the point.

Also a Vintage Boker King Cutter was a bit finicky at the tip. A Robert Klaas was a little bit challenging too but not too much. Vintage blades that I could get shave ready very quickly include a C-Mon Cadillac and very recently I could reset the bevel VERY quickly and easily on 2 Henckels and a Filarmonica 14 Doble Temple. There's also a Vintage Dovo Special with a French point that was very easy to set a good bevel.

The steel on the Vintage Dovo Special, seems to be of better quality but I don't know if it's the hardness or heat treatment or the grind. It produces a nice sound when flexed. The modern Dovo Bismarck, Dovo Astrale and Inox don't even make any sound when flexed I wonder if it's the grind... Not as full hollow as the vintage one.

The steel on the vintage Boker King Cutter also makes this sound when flex and it's very polished. The modern day Boker Celebrated doesn't flex much, even though marketed as extra hollow. My modern dar Boker Edelweiss, however, does make a nice sound when flexed. My modern day Wacker Jungmeister also makes a really nice and LOUD sound when flexed. The Vintage Wacker I honed recently makes this sound too.

So, my 2 questions are...

1) Is vintage Solingen steel, generally speaking, harder than modern-day Solingen steel? (let's put TI C135 aside because it's a completely different story). I know the worn-out condition of some vintage blades add to the feeling that it's harder to hone but I'd like to know if there's something else such as hardness or heat treatment...
2) Was the heat treatment deeper/better back in the old days?

Here are some pictures of the razors I'm speaking about.

Thanks a lot for any feedback...


Vintage Dovo Special, Friodur Inox, Henckels 426, Boker King Cutter, Filarmonica 14 Doble Temple


C-Mon Cadillac, Robert Klaas and Wacker 13. The point of that Wacker was finicky to get an edge.


Moder-day Boker The Celebrated. Piece of cake to get shave-ready.


Modern-day Dovo Astrale Half Hollow. Very easy to hone too. Wonder if the steel is soft or something.


Modern-day Dovo Bismarck. Another razor which I find easy to hone.

Interesting question(that I don't have the answer to). I have some razors that are hard to hone too. In some cases I think it's due to the grind of the razor ex. hollow vs. wedge. i'll be interested in finding out the answer.

I think we need to hear from gssixgun. He will likely have the experience honing modern and vintage razors from different parts of the world.

Personally, I find my coticules do provide good edges on any of the blades, vintage or modern, I own that are not dramatically warped or have a history of heavy-handed uneven honing. I set the bevel with a 1k or 1.5k Shapton and then move to a 4k-8k Norton and then to my combination coti/BBW. From there I finish with CrOx on balsa or a Vermio, la Lune or Oozuko.

Originally Posted by DZEC

I think we need to hear from gssixgun. He will likely have the experience honing modern and vintage razors from different parts of the world.

Personally, I find my coticules do provide good edges on any of the blades, vintage or modern, I own that are not dramatically warped or have a history of heavy-handed uneven honing. I set the bevel with a 1k or 1.5k Shapton and then move to a 4k-8k Norton and then to my combination coti/BBW. From there I finish with CrOx on balsa or a Vermio, la Lune or Oozuko.

I asked him on Facebook but no answer yet. I'm looking forward to get more answers from other experienced people. Thanks!

What steel are you writing about? Solingen is a very broad term. Heat treating is also a very broad term. The same steel can have many different properties.

Originally Posted by 32t

What steel are you writing about? Solingen is a very broad term. Heat treating is also a very broad term. The same steel can have many different properties.

Ufffff..., I'm referring to vintage Solingen steel/razors GENERALLY, so, very broadly speaking. I'd like to know if it's, very generally, considered to be harder than today's 1.2210 Carbon steel. I read all Solingen razors in production nowadays use the same 1.2210 Carbon steel. I read that here at SRP and also from the Dovo website.

I also have the feeling that edge condition on some vintage razors can add to the feeling that they're sometimes harder to hone than brand-new current productions razors from Solingen...

I think that your questions are to generic for a proper answer.

Originally Posted by 32t

I think that your questions are to generic for a proper answer.

I understand your point

In other words, I'd like to know how vintage razors compare to modern-day ones in terms of steel quality??

I have my experience with them, honing and shaving, but would like to hear from other people. I'm doing a video where I discuss this, and want to know what other shavers have to say.

Originally Posted by tintin

Interesting question(that I don't have the answer to). I have some razors that are hard to hone too. In some cases I think it's due to the grind of the razor ex. hollow vs. wedge. i'll be interested in finding out the answer.

Me too. C135 from TI is another story. These days, I'd like to gather more knowledge about the steel from Solingen. How it was made in the past, and nowadays. I've read that most of the razors from Solingen nowadays use the same 1.2210 carbon steel and some people say it's not as good as vintage steel. They don't always mention why. I do have my own opinion about it but want to know from more people.

As far as grind is concerned. I've found most current production razors from Solingen to feel, most of them, like half hollow razors regardless of how they are marketed. Most vintage razors I've tried, feel like TRUE full or extra hollows.

My thought on why vintage razors commonly take more effort to hone. Bevel set. Typically with vintage razors there is no original bevel remaining and it must be created. The exception to this will be NOS razors which still sport their factory bevel. Restoration honing is much more extensive and requires a lot more effort than a touch or refresh.I have done a fair bit of all of the above and I think this answers what I think you are asking.