Thread: HART Razor

Originally Posted by khaos

How can you "try" 12 deg? did you shave the spine down?

Yes. Put the tape on the edge of the razor and hone the spine. I've also made razors that are 12 degrees originally. Had to increase to 14 though.

all i ask is not to start comparring me with other makers in this thread so far as oo i do this or i use that and "other maker uses XXX"


i use 52100 cause of i wanted to work with the steel in kitchen knives and found a good deal on a sheet of it

im betting sone of the reasons that Tim while helping spec out steel picked O1 would be
1 available sizes (you have no clue how hard it was to find sheet 52100 less then3/8 inch thick)
2nd not ease of heat treat but the consistency of heat treat in a semi production world (i might work 3 blades at a time in my kiln )
3rd that Tim knows O1 and L6 but L6 would be next to imposssable to find in sheet
since i had been asked befor abot what steels i have used in razors
1084 ,1095, O1 52100, cpm3v, cpm154cm and i might be leaving some out
had i not found a sheet of 52100 i would likly be working O1 or 1084 maybe W2 as i have a pile of that to play with too

Sorry Butch didn't mean to offend you. I was just trying to make a point, that you backed up. The steel was probably chosen because it was practical and cost effective in this situation. Not because it was some god-steel.

its not a problem i just want to make sure that i not come into a ****ing match
i have not used any new razor in my life sept for my one make (have a old one and fixing up another )
and the only think i can say about Tims razors are that they look nice (never seen them in life ) and the harts look like a great deal
i find all too often that makers get pitted agenst each other and it never ends well
the makers that i know all love the making and all have different ways about makeing a great knife/razor

I feel that is a great point Butch, and I tried as much as I could to point out that I have no problem with Tim or the other razor smiths, I'm sure they are all very competent and I truly am impressed by your work. I actually am very inspired to take up razor-making as well, but I would have to first become certified to use the equipment here at the University, as I cannot afford my own stuff. I feel custom razors are works of art and shouldn't be compared.

The Hart however, is neither made by Tim, nor custom made. It's a production razor. We compare Dovo's, TI's and others all the time, so I feel its only fair to toss the Hart into the mix.

Anyways. I've said enough for tonight and will drop back to lurking. Sorry for getting caught up again guys.

Originally Posted by cotdt

I wouldn't be so sure of that until seeing the microscope pictures for myself.

In any case, I have a 1095 razor hardened to 65 hrc, and it has no microchipping issues. It's all in the heat treat. Certainly, I know O-1 can easily handle 63 rc w/o being brittle, 13 degrees or not. I've tried 12 degrees with my 1095 razor and the only negative was that the edge didn't last through the shave.

I've got an O1 razor at 64-65RC and it doesn't have brittleness issues either. Honing is a bit interesting, but not because of the brittleness.

Originally Posted by cotdt

From an engineering point of view, there's no differentiation between "custom" and "production" that's what marketing people would argue over. The only thing that matters would be performance and ease of use. I'm sure that the performance is there, because O-1 at 63 rc is a very good choice for razors. It's easy to heat treat and can be rehardened if the first heat treat doesn't meet specs. It's very fine-grained, which is great for razors. Shouldn't be too hard to hone, and the edge should last a while because of the hardness. BTW, 52100 is also a ball-bearing steel. Ball-bearing steels seem quite popular for razors! I'm surprised no one has used the stainless "razor steel" AEB-L yet.

I don't believe that O-1 is a particularly great choice for razors. Every O-1 razor I've owned has been particularly prone to corrosion, generally showing up early and often as tarnish. No other razor that I own has this problem to such a degree - normal drying and oiling has kept them tarnish free for years. But the O-1's get cleaned with flitz every few dozen shaves.

As for the edge longevity, as best as I can tell my edges are generally dulling from corrosive damage, not from mechanical wear due to lack of hardness or chipping. This was also identified as the major cause of dulling in that 1929 popular mechanics article, and is the reason the commercial razor blade manufacturers long ago switched to stainless steel. Stainless steel straight razors such as the Henckels Friodur are reputed for holding an edge longer than carbon steel razors, yet have relatively soft steel (about 57rc).

Edit: I should modify this statement somewhat. Back when I was stropping primarily on leather I believe that my edges were dying of accumulated corrosion damage. Some time ago I started stropping primarily on linen in an attempt to ensure that the corrosion was cleaned off each day, with the result that my edges are lasting 10x+ longer, and I believe mechanical stress is now playing a much larger role in dulling the razors.

Why are there so many posts on this thread from people that down own a Hart razor? At first I found this thread useful - very good, knowledgable reviews from experienced straight users that actually bought a Hart razor. And I think (I can't even figure it out anymore with all the filler that now makes up the bulk of the thread) a couple people liked their razor, and a couple didn't. That was useful to me in thinking about buying one down the road.

But there are multiple double digit posts here from people that don't own one, with very strong philosophical views on how outrageous the razors are. I just don't get that, and it's made the thread impossible to navigate.

I'm glad Hart is doing this. I'm glad they are getting constructive feedback, which is important. But the B&B like follow on rants by people that haven't bought one don't make sense to me, and if we want companies like Hart to stick their necks out into this field and incur the start up costs and lose the time they could spending more easily on other ventures, we should keep the criticism constructive (and most of it should be from people that have, um, actually, um, used one).

Ranting about how shocking it is to charge $200 for a razor is just stale - reminds of Joel's rant that Robert Williams dare charge more than $300 for a custom, when a month later people were fighting for space in line to pay $1000.

It's awesome Hart is doing this. Let's support it and get them the feedback they need to kick ass.

Originally Posted by mparker762

I don't believe that O-1 is a particularly great choice for razors. Every O-1 razor I've owned has been particularly prone to corrosion, generally showing up early and often as tarnish. No other razor that I own has this problem to such a degree - normal drying and oiling has kept them tarnish free for years. But the O-1's get cleaned with flitz every few dozen shaves.

As for the edge longevity, as best as I can tell my edges are generally dulling from corrosive damage, not from mechanical wear due to lack of hardness or chipping. This was also identified as the major cause of dulling in that 1929 popular mechanics article, and is the reason the commercial razor blade manufacturers long ago switched to stainless steel. Stainless steel straight razors such as the Henckels Friodur are reputed for holding an edge longer than carbon steel razors, yet have relatively soft steel (about 57rc).

Edit: I should modify this statement somewhat. Back when I was stropping primarily on leather I believe that my edges were dying of accumulated corrosion damage. Some time ago I started stropping primarily on linen in an attempt to ensure that the corrosion was cleaned off each day, with the result that my edges are lasting 10x+ longer, and I believe mechanical stress is now playing a much larger role in dulling the razors.

Ah, serendipity my old friend. I just posted a link to this article (actually a 1931 article) here: http://straightrazorpalace.com/razor...le-1931-a.html

Just my 2 cts after reading the posts in this thread.

When you pay 200 USD or more for a straight you should be able to hone it like we hone other razors: with the spine flat on the hone.
If these razors are made such that you need an increased angle over the angle the spine provides I feel the manufacturer should warn future buyers in advance or provide a contraption that you can slip over the spine to provide the right honing angle. I think it is not on to sell expensive razors and expect buyers to experiment with layer on layer of tape before they get the right honing angle.

Disclaimer: I do not own a Hart razor and will not buy one until I am satisfied the manufacturer has sorted this problem out.