Thread: Has anybody heard anything more about Hart razors?

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

How do you like your Hart razor Karl ? Does it shave as well as you had hoped it would ? Is the workmanship up to your expectations ?

Does yours?

I'm not saying they are bad- after all pretty much every Dubl Duck was made similarly- stamped out, rough ground, heat treated, then final ground... as were many others.

Originally Posted by khaos

According to Tim:


So the blanks are stamped out by machine. Then they are rough ground. Then sent out. Then ground again. How is this all "semi-custom" "hand-made" by "one" person...?

They ARE stamped out in cookie cutter fashion, then rough ground, then shipped out to a heat treat plant, where I can guarantee you there is an assembly line procedure, then shipped back for final grinding....

They are not even mining their own ore or smelting their own steel, they are not even drilling their own oil to manufacture the plastics for the scales. How dare they call them selves a small cottage industry.




Slackers and Fakers, a real artisan would naw the blanks to shape with abrasive coated teeth. Then and only then would I consider buying one.



This thread is silly, it has gone off of the rails.




This has turned into a debate not a discussion, I will bend you to my way of thinking with well reasoned rebuttals if you do not agree with my statements.


It is OK to have differing opinions.





Charlie

Originally Posted by loueedacat

It could have been done in a more high profile way, but he did have Chris Moss at SMF test it, and Chris has been doing this forever. And I believe he tested with others.

Chris was entrusted with testing Chronik razors awhile back - I think that is as high profile as it can possibly get

Originally Posted by spazola

It is OK to have differing opinions.

yep

Originally Posted by spazola

It is OK to have differing opinions.

Charlie

Absolutely. Everyone here is free to take my opinions, add $2. and go have a cup of coffee.

Originally Posted by mparker762

Sorry but this just doesn't compute. Dovo and TI aren't making their razors in China - France and Germany aren't known for their low labor and overhead rates either, and the currency exchange rate is *not* acting in their favor. Yet their razors that are most comparable to the Hart are considerably less expensive.

It does come back to how one gets venture capital here in the US. I recently went through the process of doing a business plan for a start up. Bankers want to see you break even in 5 years. IOW you have to project profits that will pay off your investments at that time. To do this you either have to project a certain number of sales or price a certain margin per item produced.

Start up costs for them are going to be much higher that the costs for an existing product that has been produced for 20+ years. Dovo and TI's "start up costs" are going to be much lower even for a new product because they already have much of an infrastructure in place. Even raw material costs are going to be lower for them as long standing large customers for their suppliers.

If you project a whole lot of sales in the first few years, you have to be able to support that conclusion to the banker. Bankers will quickly pick up on unrealistic sales projections. I suspect most bankers would have a hard time believing that Hart is going to create market. It is likely to be difficult to prove increasing demand for straight razors out there (unless someone has data I am unaware of). So they will have to project carving out part of the existing market.

My suspicion is they had a hard time projecting large numbers of sales. This means they had to build in a decent profit margin in order to get a reasonable ROI.

I conclude that, because of the constraints of venture capitol and start up costs, they didn't have a heck of a lot of choice about pricing.

I do wonder about their choice of retailer. I suspect that Zowada's relationship with Classic Shaving plays a role here.

They might have been better served by going with a company that sells a variety of less known brands as well as new old stock of older razor makers like Shaving Shop. Maybe some here could give me some insight to this but I think the people who buy Wackers might be more the type to by the new Hart Razors than the people who buy Dovo's or TI's.

By the same token, a retailer with a built in expert to do the reviews (SRD) for the new product might have been a good place to start their retail offerings.

Originally Posted by hoglahoo

Chris was entrusted with testing Chronik razors awhile back - I think that is as high profile as it can possibly get

yep

It's funny you mention Chronik. I have this Regeldso, but I think it must have been made at the Chronik factory by the special Dwarves from the Misty Mountain, because after I shaved, I noticed that not only did i have a BBS, but my 9 month old David was completely smooth, both on his face and butt. And I haven't had to strop the razor in a week. Sound familiar..........?



[and yeah, 9 month olds don't really have body hair, and sure I've been using other razors during the week, but it shimmers and stuff, and it seems to glow if I walk within 10 feet of my old Mach 3....]

Originally Posted by spazola

This has turned into a debate not a discussion, I will bend you to my way of thinking with well reasoned rebuttals if you do not agree with my statements.

I was in a business seminar in which this type of thing was covered, and they made some interesting points.

Discussions = Dual Beatings (dis-two; Cussion-beatings... think percussion instruments)

Dialogue = Dual Listening

Maybe we need a little bit more listening on both sides of this issue instead of more sanctimony... just a thought

Originally Posted by hoglahoo

Chris was entrusted with testing Chronik razors awhile back - I think that is as high profile as it can possibly get

But if you recall even in that situation there were multiple people doing that evaluation - el alamein, me, Lynn, and Chris. That's 4x the number that we know of for the Hart evaluation. Something as piddly as that Chronik eval - no financial risk involved - took roughly 3 months and involved I think 5 different Chronik razors.

Originally Posted by mparker762

But if you recall even in that situation there were multiple people doing that evaluation - el alamein, me, Lynn, and Chris. That's 4x the number that we know of for the Hart evaluation. Something as piddly as that Chronik eval - no financial risk involved - took roughly 3 months and involved I think 5 different Chronik razors.

You might want to re-read JimmyHAD's post on the whole not needing the last word thing. Just let it go. Do we really need to argue how many straight shavers it takes to screw in a light bulb?

We've now gotten over 5 views from people testing the HART - I think 4 of the 5 really liked it - Tim is taking the constructive criticism into his plans and offered to fix the one that didn't bring a smile. Mission accomplished, no?

Originally Posted by loueedacat

You might want to re-read JimmyHAD's post on the whole not needing the last word thing. Just let it go. Do we really need to argue how many straight shavers it takes to screw in a light bulb?

We've now gotten over 5 views from people testing the HART - I think 4 of the 5 really liked it - Tim is taking the constructive criticism into his plans and offered to fix the one that didn't bring a smile. Mission accomplished, no?

Could be that we all need to reread that... including you, Jimmy, and me