Thread: Can this razor be saved?

Originally Posted by tat2Ralfy

Yes Please do, as I understand it, tape=thicker spine, thicker spine=narrow bevel.

Pure unadulterated horse hocky!

Originally Posted by radaddict

Let me see if I can explain all this:

The more hone wear, the thinner the spine and the wider the bevel. So, when honing, you're honing more steel and, as the spine gets thinner, the edge moves closer to the spine. The closer the edge moves to the spine, the thicker the steel and the more difficult it is get a keen edge. Taping the spine will make it easier to get a keen edge, but because the edge or bevel is thick (and I'm talking steel thickness, not bevel width), it doesn't shave well. Sharp thin steel will cut more effectively than equally sharp thick steel.

Let's talk about bevel angles. Thin steel will be honed to a narrow bevel (low bevel angle) and a certain sharpness. Thick steel can be honed to the same sharpness, but the bevel angle will be wide (as viewed from the side). Consider that the average 6/8 razor may have a bevel angle of 18 degrees and delivers a comfortable shave. Now, keep the same sharpness and 6/8 blade width, but widen the bevel angle to 30 degrees (making the spine thicker). Shaving with that razor won't be easy. You'll have to compensate for the increased bevel angle by increasing the blade to skin angle. We all know the discomfort that comes with raising the spine too far beyond the 30 degree optimum angle.

To explain (or muddy the waters) further: The razor geometry is complex. You have the blade width, spine thickness and bevel angle all working together. You may shave with the razor at a 30 degree angle to your face, but the angle to your face at the bevel is much lower (sigh... I wish I had some diagrams). So, if you have a wide bevel angle you will need to raise the blade angle much higher to achieve the same bevel to face angle that you got with the razor with a low bevel angle. (good god... the pellet with the poison's in the vessel with the pestle. The chalice from the palace has the brew that is true. - sorry, obscure reference to an old Danny Kaye movie )

I fear that this is still clear as mud, but I hope that helps.

OK, let's cut to the chase. If your razor is so over honed/honed out that the edge is thickening up it needs to be reground. Even better go get a new one. If that same razor is so overhoned that the edge has thickened up from removing so much metal that your formerly 6/8 is now a 5/8, putting tape on the spine making it thicker will only do the same for the edge - make it thicker. It's basic geometry.

Originally Posted by John Crowley

Pure unadulterated horse hocky!

What tat2ralfy says makes perfect sense to me John. Maybe if you tried to explain yourself in a different way and educate us instead of dismissing the idea in such a manner as in the quote above we might get a better idea of what you mean.

Originally Posted by John Crowley

Pure unadulterated horse hocky!

I am trying to understand why taping wouldn't make the bevel thinner... here are some cheesy drawings showing the vectors of a hone to the edge if the spine of a razor were widened (as in by adding tape). The pictures are exaggerations, but I think it shows the point.

normal spine= wider bevel

wider spine= thinner bevel

I think part of the problem is you guys are looking at the bevel as being the honed shiny area above the cutting edge of the razor and not thinking of the bevel as an angle. A bevel on a knife is a totally different animal from a bevel on a razor but if you thicken the spine eventually you will have a pocket knife. (acute = sharp and obtuse = dull)

Webster definition of a bevel when used as a noun:
the angle that one surface or line makes with another when they are not at right angles b : the slant of such a surface or line

Obtuse when used as an adjective: not sharp, acute, or pointed; blunt in form.

Acute when used as an adjective: sharp at the end; ending in a point.

If you tape the spine sure it will not polish as much of the blade going down to the cutting edge but it makes the bevel angle less acute, (more obtuse), and trends towards making a duller cutting edge.

I apologize for getting testy but this argument keeps going on and on month after month and I still think it is dumb. It all boils down to whatever floats your boat! If you guys have it in your mind that taping the spine in some way gives you a better shave - have at it. You are the ones who have to shave with your razors and you are the ones you have to make happy.