Thread: The Truth About The Barber's Notch

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

Neil, I need you to send those razors to me so I can see how they work above my mustache and report back with the results.

Kidding aside, the first thought when I saw the early ones with a very slight notch was that the purpose may have been to hold that end of the blade in a jig/fixture to facilitate working on it. As time went on it evolved from there. Just another thought to throw out there.

That's certainly a possibility Jimmy - it isn't very decorative is it?! It looks more like a chip - the first time I came across one I thought that it was, but a seven day set that had the little notch in each blade persuaded me otherwise. Not decorative, not useful - it must have been there for some reason! But what? I can't for the life of me think of a reason, other than that tastes change dramatically over the ages and once it might have been seen as decorative.

Regards,
Neil

I had two small Joseph Rodgers with that very small chip like notch in a seven day set with 5 larger round points. The two smaller ones I depinned and kept the ivory scales, selling the blades. I assumed they were small chips in the point. I didn't not consider the possibility that this could be a notch.

Originally Posted by Neil Miller

Here are some razors which show a sort of progression of hollow points, from round tip with no hollow to full hollow, to square with no hollow...

5: Howe
6: Joseph Rodgers
7: E A Berg
8. Fontenille
9. unknown maker, early, marked "silver steel"
10: Harrison Bros & Howson
11: unknown, french made

The Joseph Rodgers nos. 2, 3 and 4 show a vestigial hollow/notch, useless for detail work like going around nostrils, ears, etc, and as each notch sits well below the top of the scales, useless for opening, too - it must have been just a design feature in this case.

Regards,
Neil

It'd be interesting to see this razor line up according to date. It's easy to line up shapes in a progression. Most of us have been doing that since we were about two (my two year old son does that), but it's not particularly informative.

Razors 5-11 clearly have notches that could serve a function, whereas the others simply have a concave shape, useful

I wonder if, with the info we have here in the collective of SRP, we could date the earliest notch point razor; that is a razor with a clear and deliberate notch such as those pictured 5-11. Placing that within the timeline of history might prove enlightening.

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

Kidding aside, the first thought when I saw the early ones with a very slight notch was that the purpose may have been to hold that end of the blade in a jig/fixture to facilitate working on it.

I think that's a pretty interesting idea. I've never seen a blade with such a little notch in the end of it, but there's no point or purpose for putting it there unless it's purpose involves either a) identification (someone marking the blades as theirs), or more likely b)manufacture (perhaps even only a trial run on a new system that was short lived).

I have to say though, with the notch points I have, I can't even envision how they could be useful for detail work; and they're full size notches (J. Wost, C&S, etc.)

FWIW,
Jim

My idea that the small notches may have been there to hold one end of the blade in a fixture for some step in the manufacturing process comes from my limited experience with milling machines and lathes when building tattoo machines. As anyone who has messed with mills/lathes knows, you frequently have to fashion jigs/fixtures to hold work securely.

Looking at the evolution of the straight razor blade and scales it seems to me that the notch evolved along with the distinct tang, longer monkey tail, slight curve to the scales. IOW, they found a purpose for it. Whether it was to more easily get around the nostrils when trimming a mustache, as I believe, or to allow the razor to be opened with one hand is something we'll probably never know.

Originally Posted by BigJim

It'd be interesting to see this razor line up according to date. It's easy to line up shapes in a progression. Most of us have been doing that since we were about two (my two year old son does that), but it's not particularly informative.

Well pardon me all over the place - guilty as charged, I'm sure.

Originally Posted by BigJim

I've never seen a blade with such a little notch in the end of it, but there's no point or purpose for putting it there unless it's purpose involves either a) identification (someone marking the blades as theirs), or more likely b)manufacture (perhaps even only a trial run on a new system that was short lived).
FWIW,
Jim

Or, as previously stated, pure decoration. Personal identification? Hardly. Apart from the three in the pic I have another partial set and a full seven day set, all alike. Scipio has seen them as well. I can't see the owner as someone who had three JR 7-day sets and marked them all the same, nor can I see a particular grinder for JR doing it, unless he didn't want to get paid or work there any more.

Regards,
Neil

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

My idea that the small notches may have been there to hold one end of the blade in a fixture for some step in the manufacturing process comes from my limited experience with milling machines and lathes when building tattoo machines. As anyone who has messed with mills/lathes knows, you frequently have to fashion jigs/fixtures to hold work securely.

Looking at the evolution of the straight razor blade and scales it seems to me that the notch evolved along with the distinct tang, longer monkey tail, slight curve to the scales. IOW, they found a purpose for it. Whether it was to more easily get around the nostrils when trimming a mustache, as I believe, or to allow the razor to be opened with one hand is something we'll probably never know.

I have tried to research the jig thing, but have never found anything like it with the exception of slats of wood that encased the tang (and were possibly fixed in place with something going through the pivot hole) which were used to apply extra pressure during grinding. I think the term was 'flat stick' (such complicated jargon!) and it extended to cover the blade.

All the pictures I have seen, including very old ones, drawings, photos from the 1950s, a german razor makers book of shop processes from the 1930s, etc, show nothing that would explain the notch. Even polishing the razors, commonly done by ladies in Sheffield in the old days, was done by hand, reversing the razor for finishing the tang, so no jig of any kind was employed. I have seen cutlery machines that did the work, but even then the jig was adapted to suit the knife, fork or spoon and not the other way round.

The evolution of the tip is quite evident, from the full hollow to various so-called notch types to round tip and other types that include no hollow, and seem to follow a progression that was in line with the tail as you point out Jimmy, making allowances for fashion blips and so on.

Like you say Jimmy, we will probably never know.

One thing that might have (or might not have!) had some bearing on it was a remark by an old Sheffield grinder when referring to razor with a hollow point and a 'grob' (slanted) tip as being finished "quick and dirty" - almost as if he saw no merit in it and it was easier to finish the razor like that than to fashion a round tip. Who knows.

Regards,
Neil

OK, here are other theories I have been investigating: balance, alien razor mutilations, boredom, fashion, aerodynamics, marketing, love razors.

The most interesting of these to me so far has been love razors. The matching piece taken from the barber's notch (or B-N as we in this area like to call it) is given to one's beloved, who hangs it around her neck as a symbol of ownership, like a yoke if you will. When the two pieces were reunited, the entire razor was said to be imbued with a mystical power, a little like how the Power Rangers can join up to make a more powerful defender of all that is right. There is anecdotal evidence that the Chronik is one such razor, but this cannot be confirmed as yet.

James.

I do not remember where I read it but I read somewhere that it was used by a barber to mark moles, warts, ect on a customers face in order to avoid nicking them while shaving as some moles protrude quite a bit from the face. That is probably only one of its uses but a plausible one.

Regards
Louis.

Originally Posted by Jimbo

The matching piece taken from the barber's notch (or B-N as we in this area like to call it) is given to one's beloved, who hangs it around her neck as a symbol of ownership, like a yoke if you will.

I will, and I wonder if that is how the lancet edge came to be

I offered to give one of my B-Ns to my wife to hang around her neck as a symbol of my owning her, but she said she could think of a much better place for me to put it. Does anyone have any Astroglide?