Thread: Is a bit of patina a bad thing

Originally Posted by Neil Miller

the reason is simple- Sheffield man Roger Hinchliffe invented a high gloss polish known as 'black polish' in 1760 and it quickly became the preferred finish for high-end cutlery of all types. It was a secret crocus formula, eventually cracked by Solingen bladesmith and razor maker Daniel Peres, who set up business in 1792 and had a factory by 1801. So - mirror polishing was an option at least 200 years ago

That is not to say it was a universal finish - far from it. We all have individual preferences and no doubt all preferences were catered for. Furthermore a high polish was only applied to high-end cutlery, while the easy to achieve 'satin' polish was more prevalent, mainly due to being cheaper.

Sure,razors that are ground and finished on fine round mechanically driven water stone wheels will show grind marks (virtually all modern razors), but this is a finish of choice and if very fine adorns expensive as well as cheap items.

In fact it is very hard to know what the finish was on very old blades - typically because of the possibility that they were wedges originally, or at least very thick compared to the later hollow ground blades, and most have been reground at a later date using a technology which was not available at the time they were made, so discussing finish is pretty much an exercise in futility.

As for a mirror shine being easier to obtain than a satin finish, I beg to differ. A satin finish is simple - even a radial very fine scotchbrite wheel will do that in seconds. A true mirror shine involves many more steps - more sanding stages, more abrasive compound stages, more buffing compound stages, more final polishing stages.

But, as we probably all agree, it is a matter of taste. Facts aren't though.

Regards,
Neil

Totally off topic Neil, well not really, the HB&H you said wouldn't take an edge as good as it should....

You did a great job. Without doubt the closest and most comfortable one pass shave I've managed yet.

I think as mentioned before I'll be asking for the razors I'll be sending you to have the works.

Thank you for what you've done to the first 2.

Originally Posted by DaveTheGeordie

Totally off topic Neil, well not really, the HB&H you said wouldn't take an edge as good as it should....

You did a great job. Without doubt the closest and most comfortable one pass shave I've managed yet.

I think as mentioned before I'll be asking for the razors I'll be sending you to have the works.

Thank you for what you've done to the first 2.

Thanks Dave!

I think I said it didn't take quite the edge that a class marque like Harrison Bros & Howson razors usually take, due to the bulge near the tang end on one side and slight kink in the spine - without those defects it would have been better.

It's the first HB&H like that I have come across, and I have refurbed and honed an awful lot of them. Just goes to show that anyone can have an off-day! Still, if it does the business than that's what really counts.

Regards,
Neil

Originally Posted by Neil Miller

the reason is simple- Sheffield man Roger Hinchliffe invented a high gloss polish known as 'black polish' in 1760 and it quickly became the preferred finish for high-end cutlery of all types. It was a secret crocus formula, eventually cracked by Solingen bladesmith and razor maker Daniel Peres, who set up business in 1792 and had a factory by 1801. So - mirror polishing was an option at least 200 years ago

That is not to say it was a universal finish - far from it. We all have individual preferences and no doubt all preferences were catered for. Furthermore a high polish was only applied to high-end cutlery, while the easy to achieve 'satin' polish was more prevalent, mainly due to being cheaper.

Sure,razors that are ground and finished on fine round mechanically driven water stone wheels will show grind marks (virtually all modern razors), but this is a finish of choice and if very fine adorns expensive as well as cheap items.

In fact it is very hard to know what the finish was on very old blades - typically because of the possibility that they were wedges originally, or at least very thick compared to the later hollow ground blades, and most have been reground at a later date using a technology which was not available at the time they were made, so discussing finish is pretty much an exercise in futility.

As for a mirror shine being easier to obtain than a satin finish, I beg to differ. A satin finish is simple - even a radial very fine scotchbrite wheel will do that in seconds. A true mirror shine involves many more steps - more sanding stages, more abrasive compound stages, more buffing compound stages, more final polishing stages.

But, as we probably all agree, it is a matter of taste. Facts aren't though.

Regards,
Neil

I didn't know about the polishing compound, you learn something every day. Still, as you say it was likely mostly used for quite high-end items, and I doubt most razors fell into that category.

Personally, I have accomplished a mirror finish with wet & dry sandpaper and MicroMesh, pretty much in linear motion (left to right swipes). When I said 'satin finish' I meant the relatively highly polished face that has vertical grind marks, bad choice of words.

Note that I do all of my restoring by hand (except drilling out pins, I use a hand-held electrical drill). And I'm still trying to figure out those vertical grind marks on a relatively high gloss blade face.

And yes, it is very much a matter of taste. Often when I've seen a razor polished to a mirror polish using very fine compounds and to me it almost looks like they had some sort of coating applied to them - very odd looking, especially when there is any sign of pitting left. These cleaned out patches of pittin just look really, really strange to me. It's like a new paint job on a dented car.