Thread: H. Herder ???

I got a H. Herder in the mail today, i now F, R and now there is a L Herder out there but never heard about a H.Herder.
What is his age about approximately?? ( hope good spelling) any idea someone?
I must clean him up and think/ hope he shave just so good as my other Herders.

It is certainly a legitimate Herder:





The first mark came from a German WW2 daggers/sword site.

Apparently F Herder did not like the H. Herder brand - there is (according to Oldengaarde) a letter in the Solingen City Archive in which F Herder accuses H. Herder of trademark infringement in the early 1930s. H. Herder StahlwarenFabrik was run by a member of the same family but was a completely different company to F. Herder.

Regards,
Neil

Interestingly, according to the trademark office in Germany H. Herder file an application for the clover in a frame trademark in 1894.

Friedr Herder trademark infringement letter in the archive somewhere around 1930's, almost 40 years after H. herder received his trademark, sounds like quite a family feud, and a huge time gap. Furthermore from the German patent office, 96 trade marks were issued to Herder's from Friedr, H, Robert, Richard and a few more. I wonder if this family was part of the Herder's of Philadelphia also know as Clarenbach & herder?

Yes. It would be interesting to know if they were related. It seems we decided that L. Herder and Son indeed imported razors from Germany. Surely another Herder was making them?

The company of Heinrich Herder was founded in about 1806(?). The business was closed after 1972. I couldn't find the exact date. Registered 9th July 1866, located Solingen, Schützenstrasse 26.
H. Herder, concerned in peacetime with the manufacture of tools and tableware (and of daggers and dagger components in the years of the Third Reich).

Heinrich Herder is one more member of Herder's family:
Friedrich Herder
Richard Abraham Herder
Robert Herder (founded in 1872, registered 13th July 1901).

P.S. There were else Daniel Herder (founded in 1810) and Carl Herder. But I have not found them in touch with the Herder family.

Martin -

I've seen that mark (registered in 1895 - the application for it was made in 1894) but the "Fa" bit before "H. Herder" put me off a bit.

Friedr. Herder company roots go back to 1623 and Jurgen Herder, and the mark has the distinction of being the oldest registered mark in Solingen, being registered in 1727. The F. Herder and H. Herder marks are basically the same - both being an Ace of Spades, but H. Herder's is enclosed by a square/rectangle.

Regarding Claranbach & Herder, the company was previously L. Herder and then L. Herder & Son. The founder - Leopold Herder, born in 1822 in East Prussia came to the USA from Germany in 1850 (his immigration and passenger record show 1850 which puts Levine's statement that he opened his factory in Philadelphia in the 1840s after settling in the USA a bit problematic!). The firm is shown in the records as L. Herder, Cutler up to 1871 when it presumably became L. Herder Son, before becoming Clarenbach & Herder in 1879.

That picture you posted Martin is the frontispiece of a contemporary book, sold by Poor Man's Books - price $400 USD. God knows what rich men's books cost!

Leopold sent later family members (sons were Charles and Herman Herder) back to Germany when they were old enough to be apprenticed to their trade.

Regards,
Neil

Originally Posted by sharptonn

Yes. It would be interesting to know if they were related. It seems we decided that L. Herder and Son indeed imported razors from Germany. Surely another Herder was making them?

I'm not so sure about the import aspect, Tom - Leopold was a cutler and his sons and key workers were sent to Germany to learn the trade - full apprenticeships - so they were perfectly capable of making their own articles, I would have thought?

Regards,
Neil

Wow mega info thanks!
Very interesting, your guys are the best in terms of finding out information.

Originally Posted by Neil Miller

I'm not so sure about the import aspect, Tom - Leopold was a cutler and his sons and key workers were sent to Germany to learn the trade - full apprenticeships - so they were perfectly capable of making their own articles, I would have thought?

Regards,
Neil

This business card or advertisement is what i believed Tom is talking about.

That's interesting Martin!

Seems I was confused by Leopold using the spelling of "Haerder" instead of "Herder" on the original immigration arrival record, which was dated 12th September 1845, so apologies to Mr Levine are in order!

However, the "Late Clarenbach & Herder" is at odds with the records held at the Smithsonian Institute which say that L. Herder & Son was founded not by the original Leopold - naturalized in 1850 - but by his grandson, also called Leopold. This Leopold (second one) was the son of the original Leopold's son, Herman. Which is where the date of 1871 comes from, I presume.

The Institute also records that Herman Herder was the one in Clarenbach & Herman Herder, presumably different to Clarenbach & Herder - doubly confusing!

As all the companies (including L. Herder / Clarenbach & Herder/ L. Herder & Son / Clarenbach & Herman Herder / Herder Fine Cutlery (founded by the original Leopolds other son Charles) / and Herder's Cutlery were all linked to the original Leopold Herder by family, it is fair to assume that the 'Established' date of 1847 on the card you posted is 'borrowing' some years to enhance the reputation of that particular company. It's been done by many others!

I know the tradecard says scissors and shears, but there was also flatware (table knives/forks/spoons) of all kinds, folding knives, butchers knives, razors etc, etc, some of which must have been imported from what the card says. But that doesn't preclude them from being made by family members - remember the German apprenticeship - maybe the stuff they produced there was imported. They also sought out key workers in Solingen while they were there, so undoubtedly some of their produce was imported too.

Regards,
Neil