Thread: When is your Straight Razor Sharp

Marshal :

Also, bear in mind that the purpose of leather isn't so much to remove metal as it is to straighten the edge. It does remove a tiny bit to a degree, but CrOx is an entirely different animal. CrOx removes metal, and in the case of putting it on vinyl, it's the CrOx doing the real work. Vinyl may be an OK medium for that, but it's only made to look leathery, not behave the same way.

Denim might be a good substitute for linen. I don't think I've read about it being used in place of leather. But, I don't know everything, and won't claim to. I research almost obsessively, but there IS a lot out there.

In any case, I've learned (the hard way) that it's best to start learning with a known quantity, then once you have a handle on the subject (and good equipment to fall back on if the experiment fails) before wading into the unknown.

- - - I guess the question would then be this : what does leather do what other substrates do not. or maybe this : if leather can sharpen, why does newspaper also work ? To me, this is the whole mystery of this affair. I just don't believe that leather is the only way, but if it does work, I was willing to give it a try; I did give it my best shot, but the result was disappointing.

Of course it was disappointing - a strop cannot set your bevel. You are not worth a second more of anyone's time if you continue to ignore the excellent advice given you.

Hair test have long been proven unreliable. That it cut arm hair means, that one micron of the edge, is sharp enough to cut hair.

Have you looked at the edge, with magnification?

More than likely, your bevel is not fully set.

And no, you do not have to strop only on leather, in fact there are much better substrates than leather, if you are going to paste. If you are not pasting, leather works very well. But it will not set a bevel, well maybe it could, given enough laps and with a proper stropping technique, but we are talking thousands of laps.

Until your stropping technique is perfected, you will get as good an edge from Nylon or Polyester. Newspaper is a form of a pasted paper strop, paper is an very effective stropping substrate for paste.

Find a system that works for you and stick with it until perfected or you find something better. Problem is, if you don’t try other thing, you will never find anything better, and there are infinitely better edges, than you are currently shaving with.


Do get some magnification, otherwise you really are in the blind.

I'm all for experimentation and all that, but if you don't know how to utilize the basic tools, throwing more tools at it won't help. I feel like this case is much like what I just went through, but his acquisition disease seems to be unconventional strops, unlike mine (hones).

But the solution to his problem is the same as mine. I swallowed my pride, cut out my beloved naturals, barber hones, and pasted linen and worked with the bare necessities until I figured it out. In my case, same as his, a Norton (1K) 4/8, magnification (cheap jewelers loupe), and a linen/leather strop.

Until you can get and maintain a shaving edge repeatedly and reliably with this, you're wasting time with other things. Barry2, you might curse me now, but you'll probably also thank me later. Once you get your bevel set, and figure out the strop, you'll probably find you don't need the pasted vinyl, denim, newspaper, or any other stropping substrate.

BUT if you do want it, once you've acquired the basic stropping skill you'll find a vast improvement in the performance of your pastes, etc. Gotta learn to crawl before you walk, walk before you run.

The only tool you might want now, is a jewelers loupe as Euclid mentioned. Once you can see what's going on at the fine edge, you'll be infinitely closer to figuring this out. Set your pastes aside, and focus on the 4/8 and linen/leather until you can get close, clean, and comfortable shave off it. Once you achieve that, worry about other stropping media/hones/techniques/etc.

This will help you understand precisely what linen and leather are doing at the edge of your blade:

https://scienceofsharp.wordpress.com...-stropping-do/

Edit: As to why leather does this so well, and other media is hit and miss, your guess is as good as mine. But a linen and leather strop is a proven performer, and a known quantity that anyone here can help you with because (just about) everyone has a linen and leather strop of some sort lying around. Even if they've graduated on to other things. It works so well that I've abandoned CrOx, and not sought out other stropping media. I just don't need it now that I've figured out how to use my strop.

If you can shave arm hair off your stone and then pasting your vinyl strop, you should at least be in ballpark. Try 50 laps on the pasted vinyl and 100 laps on the leather. How are you prepping your beard?

My face hurts just thinking about a blade that's been hit with 50 laps of CrOx - and I'd wager it will take a lot more than that to correct what the real problem is. That bevel is not set, and all the denim, newspaper, pastes and lapping films in the world aren't going to correct it anytime soon. It's going to need time on the hones. One minute and I'll find a reference video...Edit: here-



Pay attention to what he does on the 4K side. Do what he did - then strop and shave a test patch on your face. Repeat until the edge stops improving, then move on to the 8K.

Originally Posted by Marshal

My face hurts just thinking about a blade that's been hit with 50 laps of CrOx - and I'd wager it will take a lot more than that to correct what the real problem is. Pay attention to what he does on the 4K side. Do what he did - then strop and shave a test patch on your face. Repeat until the edge stops improving, then move on to the 8K.

50 laps might be a lot but he is starting with something that wont even shave at this point. Actually shaving is a start isn't it?

Originally Posted by Brent375HH

50 laps might be a lot but he is starting with something that wont even shave at this point. Actually shaving is a start isn't it?

Yes, but he does not appear to be interested in shaving at this point. He's busy trying all the ways that don't work, and polishing bevels that don't meet to form an edge does NOTHING to get him closer to shaving. If he doesn't want help, and truly believes that Gillette is the only repository of knowledge of how to create a sharp edge, then that's fine for him. He'll either figure it out on his own or will give up.

Either way, we are wasting our time if he doesn't care to listen to experienced-based advice.

Here's the thing with that, 8000 grit is generally the accepted entry-level comfortable shave threshold. You should be able to strop and shave right off the Norton 8K, no CrOx anywhere, and get a good, comfortable shave. Once you can do that, then you move on to CrOx to improve the edge further. It took me a long time to get it right and come to the realization that people saying that weren't just exaggerating but that is the case.

Good CrOx is roughly equivalent to a 30K hone. If a blade isn't performing at an 8000 grit level, would you suggest moving up to a 30K hone to try and fix it, or down to a 4000 grit hone? See where I'm at now? I would actually suggest 1K if he had it, but working with what he has I think the solution lies in his 4K stone.