Thread: When is your Straight Razor Sharp

Originally Posted by Euclid440

And that is the point, be absolutely sure the bevel is set or you may find yourself polishing bevels that don’t meet, as Barry is.

Use more than one test, ink the bevels, do a quick hair test, at 3 places on the edge and look at the edge. If any test fail, the edge is not there.

Typically, I see guys do a hair test and it does not cut. What do they do next? They try again and then it cuts, so they call it good.

Or the ink the bevel and do one stroke and the ink does not come off completely, so they do another stroke and another and call it good.

Barry is probably close, but not there yet. Close does not count. Do multiple test and be absolutely sure the bevel is set, before you move up in grit.

Probably 95 percent of all the issues in the honing forum, are from a lack of a full bevel set…

- - - Sounds to me as if a good magnifier should be included as necessary equipment. I have a 10X magnifier, but and can't see any white line and I am guessing that you mean to look directly at the cutting edge, not from the side but uhhhhhhh top down. It helps to cover the sides with a black material, to avoid reflection or hmmmmm, a black Sharpie.

Originally Posted by Barry2

- - - Sounds to me as if a good magnifier should be included as necessary equipment. I have a 10X magnifier, but and can't see any white line and I am guessing that you mean to look directly at the cutting edge, not from the side but uhhhhhhh top down. It helps to cover the sides with a black material, to avoid reflection or hmmmmm, a black Sharpie.

The white line is a reflection. Use a strong lamp to light the blade and any reflection/white line you see from the side near the apex or from the top looking down on the edge will indicate a bevel that is not quite fully set.

Bob

The sharpie is make shore you are contacting the whole edge. When looking at the edge from above, as in straight down the cutting edge looking at both sides under light, you are looking for a reflection. If you have one, the two sides are not meeting. When doing this you do not want to cover the edge in ink to kill the possible reflection.

Well, part of the problem for new guy is seeing, what is happening on the bevels and edge, the other is understanding what you are seeing or not seeing.

The more magnification you have the more you can see, to a point. USB scopes are great and show bevels at 200 and 400 X or more, but are a pain to use to hone with, great for learning or taking photos of issues.

I find 60 and 100 fast and easy to use, usually you just need a quick look to verify a problem area. So if it is easy and quick, you will use it often.

The 60x lighted Currency scope that sells for 2-5 buck and the Carson Micro Max 200 at 10-15 dollars are great and have been used by many of us for years and what I use for honing.

To understand what you are seeing, here is a good thread, with great micrographs from a new guy, going from repair work, to bevel set, to finish. It is long, but lots of good photos and info, Second Try at Honing.

It will show you what to look for and what you are seeing.

The other thing I have noticed is, lots of new guys are not using enough pressure while bevel setting. You have to remove enough metal to get the bevels flat and meeting. Use some pressure, you can always re-set the bevel with less pressure after jointing the edge straight.

Originally Posted by Euclid440

Well, part of the problem for new guy is seeing, what is happening on the bevels and edge, the other is understanding what you are seeing or not seeing.

The more magnification you have the more you can see, to a point. USB scopes are great and show bevels at 200 and 400 X or more, but are a pain to use to hone with, great for learning or taking photos of issues.

I find 60 and 100 fast and easy to use, usually you just need a quick look to verify a problem area. So if it is easy and quick, you will use it often.

The 60x lighted Currency scope that sells for 2-5 buck and the Carson Micro Max 200 at 10-15 dollars are great and have been used by many of us for years and what I use for honing.

To understand what you are seeing, here is a good thread, with great micrographs from a new guy, going from repair work, to bevel set, to finish. It is long, but lots of good photos and info, Second Try at Honing.

It will show you what to look for and what you are seeing.

The other thing I have noticed is, lots of new guys are not using enough pressure while bevel setting. You have to remove enough metal to get the bevels flat and meeting. Use some pressure, you can always re-set the bevel with less pressure after jointing the edge straight.

- - - Where do you get them ? And also, what do you mean by "jointing" ?

- - - Oh and why do some guys tape the spine ? Seems to me that since you are raising the spine slightly off of the stone, you are just making making the bevel less sharp than it would be without the tape.

Originally Posted by Brent375HH

The sharpie is make shore you are contacting the whole edge. When looking at the edge from above, as in straight down the cutting edge looking at both sides under light, you are looking for a reflection. If you have one, the two sides are not meeting. When doing this you do not want to cover the edge in ink to kill the possible reflection.

- - - I didn't mean to cover the reflecting edge. What I meant was to cover the sides of the blade to remove reflection from it and thus to make it easier to see the relection from the edge. Nevertheless, you have clarified to me what is meant by the "white line"; in other words it is a relection from the blunt edge. I get it; thanks.

Originally Posted by Brent375HH

The sharpie is make shore you are contacting the whole edge. When looking at the edge from above, as in straight down the cutting edge looking at both sides under light, you are looking for a reflection. If you have one, the two sides are not meeting. When doing this you do not want to cover the edge in ink to kill the possible reflection.

- - - I have tried to find the "white line" of reflection, but I cannot see any with my 10X magnifier. So what am I supposed to think now ?

Just do an online search, they are all over the place, at various price ranges. If you buy a 60X lighted loupe you can buy them for as low as 2 bucks, buy a few, it is cheaper than buying new batteries, they use coin type batteries and last a long time, as long as you turn them off, when not in use.

Tape protects the spine, because typically, new guys do way too many laps and needlessly wear the spine and change the bevel angle permanently. You can wear the spine so much that the thin blade angle will not hold an edge.

The bevel angle is actually pretty forgiving, most vintage razors have some spine wear, so a layer or two of tape, corrects for that as well as, prevents further wear.

When and if you get into restoration and have put many hours into sanding and polishing a razor and spine, it is a shame to grind a freshly polished spine on the stone, and it is especially a travesty to do so needlessly on a nice razor.

If, as in your case where you are most probably, very close to a fully set bevel, an extra layer of tape will increase the angle and quickly set the bevel. You can drop back down to a single layer, if you like, but for most vintage razors with some wear, I find 2 layers of tape works very well to approximate the original bevel angle, close to 18-20 degrees.

If you bevel angle gets too thin, (from Spine Wear) the edge can be more fragile and prone to chipping. It has nothing to do with sharpness except at the extream.

Jointing is a technique where you straighten an edge, by lightly running it against the corner of a stone, abrading away any ragged or lightly (Micro) chipped metal from the edge, much like Jointing a board edge straight and true, with a Jointer Hand Plane or motorized Rotary Jointer.

Once the bevels are flat and in the correct Bevel Angle, they can easily be brought back to meeting in 10-15 laps, depending on the stone and pressure use.

Here is a video of how to inspect the edge and what to look for.

Here

.

Make sure you are under a bright light or out side in the sun.

Originally Posted by Barry2

- - - Sounds to me as if a good magnifier should be included as necessary equipment. I have a 10X magnifier, but and can't see any white line and I am guessing that you mean to look directly at the cutting edge, not from the side but uhhhhhhh top down. It helps to cover the sides with a black material, to avoid reflection or hmmmmm, a black Sharpie.

From my standpoint it is for the simple fact that, until you've got experience with a razor that's shaving sharp, you can interpret other tests incorrectly and get a false positive. But a 30x or 60x loupe isn't going to lie to you. It will pick up the white reflective sheen of a very close but still not joined bevel that your naked eye may miss. If a bevel looks joined toe to heel when viewed top down, and the edge looks perfectly straight with no chips or edge flaws, then it's right. If you see even a hint of white light along the edge, it isn't right - back to the hones. If you see any sort of chip - same thing. Not right, back to hones. Too much left over stria - see last 2 issues and return to the previous hone.

Originally Posted by Marshal

From my standpoint it is for the simple fact that, until you've got experience with a razor that's shaving sharp, you can interpret other tests incorrectly and get a false positive. But a 30x or 60x loupe isn't going to lie to you. It will pick up the white reflective sheen of a very close but still not joined bevel that your naked eye may miss. If a bevel looks joined toe to heel when viewed top down, and the edge looks perfectly straight with no chips or edge flaws, then it's right. If you see even a hint of white light along the edge, it isn't right - back to the hones. If you see any sort of chip - same thing. Not right, back to hones. Too much left over stria - see last 2 issues and return to the previous hone.

- - - I will try to acquire a loupe. Thanks !