Thread: A Confused Citizen

So with curiosity, I ask what is it about the "Vendor" badge that folks have and aversion to and or difficulty getting? Its evident to me that the vendors corner of this forum is under utilized and yet this forum is flooded with posts of things that are obviously "for sale". Not that any of this bothers me I like free market environments but I understand certainly this forum should not degenerate into some "wet shaving bazaar". Is there anyway to corral this show and tell with intent to sell to some easily defined area? Or would it be too much of a PITA. Just thinking out loud.

Regards

Originally Posted by Razorfaust

I understand certainly this forum should not degenerate into some "wet shaving bazaar". Is there anyway to corral this show and tell with intent to sell to some easily defined area? Or would it be too much of a PITA.

I don't think you can because to know somebody's intent without evidence you have to read their mind. So the line is drawn at 'direct advertising', i.e. do not mention it is for sale, do not list it for sale at the same time you post it in the gallery, do not talk about your website or store, etc.

There will always be people who think the forum is too commercial, some who think it's not commercial enough and some who are happy with it as it is. At the end of the day it will be less attractive for those in the first two groups than in the later one, so the self selection makes it the majority.
Those in the first two groups would typically find a place that fits them better or even try to run their own (which usually fail because there's not enough pragmatism and understanding of the necessary trade offs).

Originally Posted by gugi

I don't think you can because to know somebody's intent without evidence you have to read their mind. So the line is drawn at 'direct advertising', i.e. do not mention it is for sale, do not list it for sale at the same time you post it in the gallery, do not talk about your website or store, etc.

I think you are making things unnecessarily complicated here, Ivan. It really is quite simple:

SRP makes a distinction between commercial vendors ("vendor") and hobby sellers. Before you advertise on SRP, you have to ask yourself into which of these categories you fit. If you are a vendor, you must seek vendor status with SRP. You are a vendor, if you meet any or all of these criteria......

1. have a commercial website on which you offer shaving related products;
2. listed items for sale in the Classifieds on a regular basis.
3. buy or make items with the sole intent to re-sell them.

[Source: http://straightrazorpalace.com/vendo...1-2010-a.html]

So, if you have a commercial website on which you offer shaving related products, you must seek vendor status.

So, let's take today's example: http://straightrazorpalace.com/custo...ml#post1544029

I'll add https://www.etsy.com/shop/CarterMonroeRazors to Ron's eBay find.

So we have an undercover commercial vendor, advertising on SRP, with a commercial website. That is a policy violation. One out of many. One way to solve the problem would be to abandon the policy. The other to enforce it. As a member, I would definitely prefer the latter. Members have a right to know whether people showcasing their goods have a vested commercial interest, don't you think?

I see and understand your point Robin. This sort of thing in the end doesn't bother me anymore than you extolling the virtues of Thater, Meissner Tremonia, Ralf Aust or Revisor. If its out there I want to know about it. The question is if it can be done orderly and with transparency.

Originally Posted by Razorfaust

The question is if it can be done orderly and with transparency.

You forgot to mention that I also extol the virtues of Frank Shaving $1 synthetics, Groomed!, and Koraat razors.

But I have no vested commercial interest in these products. And that's the difference. If you sell Dovo razors, you will not say that recently, Dovo has been having massive problems, because you need to sell your stock. And I want to know if you want to sell your stock. For what I hope are self explanatory reasons.

Originally Posted by RobinK

Members have a right to know whether people showcasing their goods have a vested commercial interest, don't you think?

I would say that this would be an example of tautology. Commercial interest is the whole point of a marketing device, so requiring a disclosure of it is silly.

I don't think I want to see signs "WARNING, THIS MAY HAVE BEEN CREATED FOR SALE!" when I go to a gallery.

Now, unlike showcasing a product, reviewing/opining on a product is different because of the potential influence of the commercial interest onto the review/opinion.

As far as vendors coming to SRP solely for the free advertising without contributing anything to the community, I certainly do not like it, but my approach is to keep the emphasis on community and not let the commercial pressure take over. Restricting the direct marketing within the designated areas is the main tool we use.

Originally Posted by gugi

I would say that this would be an example of tautology. Commercial interest is the whole point of a marketing device, so requiring a disclosure of it is silly.

I think you got that backwards. Vendors can showcase their goods in the vendors section. That's what it's for. Disclosure is required for undercover vendors posting outside their designated forum.

Originally Posted by gugi

I don't think I want to see signs "WARNING, THIS MAY HAVE BEEN CREATED FOR SALE!" when I go to a gallery.

But Ivan, nobody wants warning signs. The badges are unintrusive, yet informative. In other words, they're perfect.

Originally Posted by gugi

Now, unlike showcasing a product, reviewing/opining on a product is different because of the potential influence of the commercial interest onto the review/opinion.

That may well be the case, but that's not what we're talking about here, is it? We're talking about giving members the ability to quickly establish whether they are dealing with a regular member, or a member with a commercial interest. I fail to see how this can be a bad thing, really.

Originally Posted by RobinK

That may well be the case, but that's not what we're talking about here, is it? We're talking about giving members the ability to quickly establish whether they are dealing with a regular member, or a member with a commercial interest. I fail to see how this can be a bad thing, really.

Why, how does it being shown by a vendor or non-vendor affect it?
I'm really trying to understand what would be the purpose of that distinction - it seems that in this case the merit is entirely in what is shown regardless of if it were made for sale or not.

Of course, exaggerated the illustration with the sign, but that's just to make the point that I don't see the interaction between commercial interest or lack of it and the merit of a showcasing.

As I explained the only drawback I see is the danger of overcommercialization taking over and overshadowing interesting and substantial discussions, or even just helping people with their problems. But the gallery is still much smaller in size and traffic than the main sections, so it doesn't seem like an issue at the moment.

Originally Posted by Razorfaust

So with curiosity, I ask what is it about the "Vendor" badge that folks have and aversion to and or difficulty getting? Its evident to me that the vendors corner of this forum is under utilized and yet this forum is flooded with posts of things that are obviously "for sale". Not that any of this bothers me I like free market environments but I understand certainly this forum should not degenerate into some "wet shaving bazaar". Is there anyway to corral this show and tell with intent to sell to some easily defined area? Or would it be too much of a PITA. Just thinking out loud.

Regards

I feel being a vendor here should require some responsibility to the members as to sharing techniques, advise. In other words, being an active member. It is too easy to blow through and advertise without being an active member. Hence, SOME don't want the trouble of a vendor's badge, it would seem.
Robin stated above that those with large post counts are offenders, but many sell products and services here and are tremendous and productive members without being official vendors. Their post counts are quite high.

On the opposite side of the coin are those with few posts which are all related to their wares. Sadly some of these are equipped with a vendor's badge while not participating with the general forum whatsoever.

JMHO

Originally Posted by sharptonn

I feel being a vendor here should require some responsibility to the members as to sharing techniques, advise. In other words, being an active member. It is too easy to blow through and advertise without being an active member. Hence, SOME don't want the trouble of a vendor's badge, it would seem.

I really do not understand why? On a non-shaving forum, of which I am a member, there is a serious cost to be a vendor and financial support of the Forum is required. Not so here!

Robin stated above that those with large post counts are offenders, but many sell products and services here and are tremendous and productive members without being official vendors. Their post counts are quite high.

I agree with the idea of them being good Samaritans and helping others to enjoy our hobby, etc. I do sometimes wonder, though, where the posted information is a bit snarky, whether the object is help or derision?

On the opposite side of the coin are those with few posts which are all related to their wares. Sadly some of these are equipped with a vendor's badge while not participating with the general forum whatsoever. JMHO

Here is where the questioned division really is.
"How to do it" posts of products meant for sale, or sold, how do they classify?
What types of posts constitute selling posts?
Is there a time period between such posts which does not require vendor status?
How many selling posts are necessary to require being classified a vendor?
How many posts in "Classifieds" are cause to require vendor status?

Some of this pertains to me at my age; I am thinking of thinning out my accumulation and such intricacies of ethical consideration do concern me!
~Richard