Thread: Possibly the best shaving cream ever...

Originally Posted by JoeLowett

Regarding pharmacy scientist who design these products who 'know' more then I do......

The scientist work for corporations to design products for a population, the likes of which I do not relate to on the subject of shaving. Those scientist don't reflect my or most any other wetshaver's interest. They reflect the gel in a can the quicker you can tear a whisker off your face the better, treat to ingrowns after they come in mentality that caters to the greater majority of men world wide. The are the same guys who tell society that you need 5 low quality blades in a cart to shave your face well. The equation is simple- more money, more sales pitches etc.... I'm not against all if this, this is capitalism. But the scientist who 'knows' has failed to create a product the suits MY needs, so what does he really KNOW? I'm sure I'm a company was willing to pay him the same to make a great traditional product with the same benefits as the product you describe we would be in business- but they won't because the market isn't there.

I'm not knocking aveeno, or you review of it.. But the best shaving cream is made by castle Forbes and Xpec. In not even sure that's an opinion, to me it's a fact- I think other in this community may agree. Then again it's all about knowing you audience to get your point accross effectively.

I'll add those two to my list of one's to try.

As far as creating a good product I think the majority rules and the vast majority of men use multi-bladed disposables with great success and pleasure. Those who choose to pick up a wicked-sharp knife and take it to their face for the first time are brave but ultimately rewarded by persistence. Whether or not a "traditional" shaving cream/soap/whatever can be just as good as something from a can is not the question but rather the reverse. I simply stumbled upon a product that gave me great results - better than any "traditional" product I had yet tried - and the list is long. I chalk this up to science and the ingredients in the formulation - many of which I was forced to learn about during my training. Shaving is an unnatural thing - we were not designed to shave and our skin was not designed to be cleaned by soaps. Indeed, many diseases of the skin are made worse by shaving and bathing. That said, I'm glad I live in a society that bathes regularly and I don't think a beard is for me. I will continue to try different products both "traditional" and mainstream to both educate myself and offer my patients good advice from my own experiences.

-john

Originally Posted by ocelot27

Big companies like J&J tend to spend a lot of time and money formulating a product and go to great lengths to ensure safety before bringing it to market.

John

Uh huh.....
J&J Said to Reach $4 Billion Deal to Settle Hip Lawsuits - Bloomberg
4 Billion is the tip of the iceberg in drug/medical device company recall litigation. Don't kid yourself, pretty much every consumer products company will aggressively market and sell anything they can sneak past the FDA.

That said, you're very right that modern products featuring synthetic chemicals aren't necessarily worse than traditional or "all-natural" preparations. And I think the persistent attitude that "my skin tolerates this well" against the conclusions of modern scientific knowledge is unfortunate. Just because you tan and don't burn doesn't mean that you should intentionally take in a lot of sun -- it will catch up to you in time. Similarly, just because essential oils and other known irritants don't cause you immediate discomfort, you shouldn't conclude that they aren't irritating or damaging to your skin. I go back and forth between Cella and MWF as shave soaps, but if someone found (or recommended to me) some (non-toxic) industrially produced goo that was less drying while providing similar cushion and slickness, I'd switch in a heartbeat.

Originally Posted by jb45

Uh huh.....
J&J Said to Reach $4 Billion Deal to Settle Hip Lawsuits - Bloomberg
4 Billion is the tip of the iceberg in drug/medical device company recall litigation. Don't kid yourself, pretty much every consumer products company will aggressively market and sell anything they can sneak past the FDA.

That said, you're very right that modern products featuring synthetic chemicals aren't necessarily worse than traditional or "all-natural" preparations. And I think the persistent attitude that "my skin tolerates this well" against the conclusions of modern scientific knowledge is unfortunate. Just because you tan and don't burn doesn't mean that you should intentionally take in a lot of sun -- it will catch up to you in time. Similarly, just because essential oils and other known irritants don't cause you immediate discomfort, you shouldn't conclude that they aren't irritating or damaging to your skin. I go back and forth between Cella and MWF as shave soaps, but if someone found (or recommended to me) some (non-toxic) industrially produced goo that was less drying while providing similar cushion and slickness, I'd switch in a heartbeat.

We have the world's most conservative government drug and medical product regulatory agency - the FDA. There are many products on the European market that would never be approved here. Drug companies must prove to the FDA that a drug is both efficacious and safe before it's approved. It costs about $1 billion to get a drug from discovery to market and the patent is issued at discovery for a length of 17 or 20 years depending on when the patent was issued. It takes on average about 10 years to complete clinical trials and get a drug approved leaving, at best, 10 years to make back your investment. I'm a firm believer in our system as it creates a market that fosters innovation and advancement in medicine. If it weren't for our capitalist marketplace there would be no new drugs to treat the diseases that afflict us.

We live in a very litigious society - I pay $25k per year for malpractice insurance and that's peanuts compared to some other specialties. OB/GYNs pay well over $100k in the state of Pennsylvania and that's money that could go to a better cause. I won't deny there is legitimate malpractice but it's the thousands of frivolous lawsuits that burden the system and drive up cost. I don't believe drug companies ever set out to defraud the FDA and seek approval for a drug they know has some problem - it's just bad business in the long run.

Back to shaving cream.... I tried the Xpec this am and it was nice - not as slick as the Red Proraso but close. I did get a closer shave with it though. I'm going to try the Castleman and Forbes tomorrow am... Can't wait!

John

Originally Posted by ocelot27

I pay $25k per year for malpractice insurance and that's peanuts compared to some other specialties. OB/GYNs pay well over $100k in the state of Pennsylvania and that's money that could go to a better cause.

Wow. We are really spoiled here in the good ol' Republic of Texas. I pay a fifth of that.

IMO the brush and lather makes shaving into a luxury. I love my brush, the feel of face lathering and the warmth of the lather. In the winter I use a scuttle and love warm lather for my second pass. The variety and quality of the scents is great and I truly love the fragrance of the creams I use. Canned cream doesn't really offer that luxury.

Plus there are a couple of practical issues with the canned stuff. I need two hands to re-lather with gel. I like to re lather with one hand, without having to put down my razor. Also the aveeno has a tendency to shoot out and splatter when new.

Aveeno is still a nice product. If I were to go back to the can, I would use aveeno. But I doubt I'll be switching.



Michael

I've seen Aveeno shave gel in a tube rather than can...instructions say to lather in your hand or on the face so I bet it'd work great with a brush and bowl and without the propellants from a can...