Thread: Less is More when stropping?

Originally Posted by pjrage

I plan to do a few more similar tests and of course report back tomorrow after the shave.

excellent I look forward to seeing your results!

Originally Posted by Leighton

Thanks for taking the time to confirm mparker's findings.

I am interested whether or not the same results can be had when using the webbed fabrid SRD strops come with. Ie, a comparison between that and linen. Maybe its been done before, but I don't recall reading a post about it.

To be honest with you I was skeptical that the webbed stuff would be any good. I like linen. When SRD first came out with their strops webbed fabric was all they supplied with the leather and I got one. I have a number of strops with linen and I continued with those for awhile. Then one day I decided to give the webbed fabric an extended try and I have been using it daily for a couple of weeks. Seems to work very well for me. Nothing scientific or checking the edge under my 30x before and after but just from the HHT and the shave I'm liking it.

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

To be honest with you I was skeptical that the webbed stuff would be any good. I like linen. When SRD first came out with their strops webbed fabric was all they supplied with the leather and I got one. I have a number of strops with linen and I continued with those for awhile. Then one day I decided to give the webbed fabric an extended try and I have been using it daily for a couple of weeks. Seems to work very well for me. Nothing scientific or checking the edge under my 30x before and after but just from the HHT and the shave I'm liking it.

Hey Jimmy,
Question? Does it make the cool sound that linen does when stropping? Thats one of the perks of linen, for me. Is the webbed stuff synthetic?

Thanks,
Mac

Originally Posted by McWolf1969

Hey Jimmy,
Question? Does it make the cool sound that linen does when stropping? Thats one of the perks of linen, for me. Is the webbed stuff synthetic?

Thanks,
Mac

Yes it does. A higher pitch to my ear. I believe it is nylon but I wouldn't swear to it on a stack of bibles.

Ugh! Looks like i'll have to be given' it a try then. Thanks Jimmy...

Mac

Originally Posted by pjrage

It's interesting how much more info on hones and honing we have available than stropping. Even down to asking what type of leather people like or whether they like cotton or linen or canvas or something else entirely. It seems like not many have even tried them all or really formed any solid opinions about what they like and why. Stropping seems to be much less scientific and more of a YMMV thing in a "this is what I do and what I like" kind of way without as much technical justification.

I'm a technical person by nature and by trade, so I guess I tend to over analyze things. I've been playing a lot with shaving and honing, mostly nailing down consistent and effective shaving and honing techniques, so that I can compare different razors, hones, and honing progressions to each other in terms of what really matters to me (the shave). I've been forming my own opinions about each, some of which I've shared. Stropping is one thing that I've been leaving for last, because I feel like my shaving and honing technique need to be up to par before I can properly evaluate stropping and the effect it has on the edge and therefore my shaves. Basically, I feel like all other variables (even including prep, lather, etc) need to be in check.

To date I've just stropped following the patterns that I've read on this site that work for others. 40-50x TM smooth cotton and 40-60x TM red latigo before every shave, and ~20/20 after the shave. My results with each razor have been very consistent, and IMO, very good as well. At this point, I haven't evaluated how much stropping has helped or hurt the shaves. I've never skipped stropping, and I never do much more or less strokes than that.

The only evaluation I've done so far regarding stropping is after a honing session when I check the bevel in the scope, and the edge with sharpness tests, as I progress through stropping. On a few occasions when I'm paying particularly close attention to both, I've done consecutive 30 lap sets and checked both the bevel and edge afterward and determined that the best thing I can do for the edge right after honing is stropping ~100x on the smooth cotton. For whatever reason, this makes a noticeable difference in sharpness for me. I've done 30x sets up past 180x total, and the benefit is pretty clear to me up until around 90x where it really seems to level off, so lately I've just been doing 100x on the smooth cotton after honing. I follow this up on the leather for another 80x or so, but the benefit here seems to taper at around 60 or 70 strokes after hitting the smooth cotton for 100x. I guess it could be in my head, but it works for me so far

I'm getting confident enough lately in my consistency in honing, shaving, and even prep, that I'm almost ready to start altering my stropping to really get an idea of how it affects my shaves. I'll be sure to share my findings for anyone who cares I really want to get a TM horsehide and linen combo to go with my smooth cotton / latigo combo, so I can also try to evaluate any differences there as well (if any). Might be a little while before I grab that, though.

One last thing to note regarding stropping is that often times as I'm going through the motions of stropping, I start to feel when the razor seems to feel different on the strop. It's like with the same stroke and pressure, the draw starts to change to be less. This is for the leather only, I've never felt this on the smooth cotton, at least, not to the same degree. I've wondered if maybe it's a sort of feedback that the razor is "done" being stropped, but I suppose it could be a number of factors not related to the "doneness" at all. At any rate, I've been wondering what meaning it has, if anything. It does seem to happen mostly toward the end of my 40-60 strokes for the razors I've noticed it with, but I can think of a couple times where it's been under 20x too (although I still finish my laps, just even lighter). Some days I don't notice it at all. Maybe because it's an imagined/meaningless feeling anyway, or maybe because the particular razor didn't get enough strokes? I'm not sure? I hope to find out eventually

Sorry for blabbering on so much... this really turned out a lot longer than I intended

I must say that I agree with your attitude and your methods in regard to stropping! I know this is rather against the "clan" and their opinions here at SRP and what has been said in this thread, but, I for one, have come to believe that with a fully regimented system of stropping, you can really improve your edges, not just make them good shavers. I have proved this to myself by observing before and after images in my microscope and by the quality of my shaves. I have not gone to the extent that you are in regard to research, but I'm close behind you. I have a system of three strops I use in my system, plus linen. The 1st strop is a red latigo with considerable drag, 2nd a leather with medium drag, and 3rd a horsehide that is very slick (my finisher). I will start with 25 laps on linen, and then move to #1 for 30 laps, I then clean the edge with alcohol and about 6 - 8 on the linen again. Next 30 laps on #2, repeating the same process done on #1, and finishing with 40 laps on the slick #1. Upon observing a before and after the stropping process in the microscope, the image is very, very much improved, and the shave is, also, unbelievable!

Of course, one must be very proficent and use extremely good technique when stropping doing this many strokes. I am truly convinced this technique has raised and improved the quality of my edges, and therefore, the quality of my shaves, perhaps (always leaving room to improve), to the very best they can be.

I believe strongly in the system and I will use this the rest of my days of shaving.

Steve

Ok, I didn't want to quote my original post because it's so long, but this is in reply to the one where I dulled my blade and stropped it back to health. I dulled a very sharp razor on the corner of my sink and bottom of a glass bottle, then did 700x on a TM smooth cotton strop, and 200x on TM red latigo.

Before the shave this morning, I did 40x smooth cotton and 40x red latigo, which is my normal pre-shave routine. Normally after honing and stropping the night before I'll only hit the leather, but something told me to hit the smooth cotton this time too.

The shave this morning was about what I expected, perhaps even a little bit better. Definitely a good shave. Also definitely not as good as it was before the damage. I would actually compare the feel of the edge and shave to what I get off my coticules, although head to head I would give the nod to the coticule edge.

I will say that I'm very impressed with the ability of the smooth cotton to improve the edge. I never thought it was doing so much. I would almost go as far as to say that if a newbie (or anyone really) is experiencing a razor that is tugging a tad, maybe has a couple dozen shaves on it, if you don't have pastes or any hones to take care of it yourself and you're about to send it out to a honemeister, if you're comfortable in your stropping stroke, try a couple hundred laps on your canvas/linen/cotton strop. You might be pleasantly surprised.

Please note that I'm not advocating that this should really ever be used in lieu of honing if hones are available. If you damage your edge or it's dulling pretty bad, and you have the means, I still recommend taking it to the hones or at least paste, depending on the state of the edge. This was merely an experiment to see what the smooth cotton was doing to the edge, if anything.

Pjrage,

Thanks for your experiment. That's a bold move, taking one for the team, and all that.

Let me just say one thing: perhaps your razor never actaully got "dull", but you merely folded over the cutting edge on the glass bottle? The glass is smooth and hard, not abrasive, so it probably did not remove the metal, and may have only bent it over, like a rolled edge?

Perhaps then the return to sharpness was simply a result of re-straightening that cutting edge? Not so much of an abrasive re-honing going on?


Just something to think about as we review your findings.

I for one, know that my white pasted cotton strop is truly abrasive, if only very mildly so, so I will certainly say that it can be used to freshen an edge.

Originally Posted by Seraphim

Pjrage,

Thanks for your experiment. That's a bold move, taking one for the team, and all that.

Let me just say one thing: perhaps your razor never actaully got "dull", but you merely folded over the cutting edge on the glass bottle? The glass is smooth and hard, not abrasive, so it probably did not remove the metal, and may have only bent it over, like a rolled edge?

Perhaps then the return to sharpness was simply a result of re-straightening that cutting edge? Not so much of an abrasive re-honing going on?


Just something to think about as we review your findings.

I for one, know that my white pasted cotton strop is truly abrasive, if only very mildly so, so I will certainly say that it can be used to freshen an edge.

Excellent point.. I did kind of think of that, but I didn't really put two and two together that it was different from regular dulling / rounding the edge. For my next test I was kind of planning on trying to cut some carpet or something to simulate cutting a ton of hair and try to dull it that way. Any ideas?

Originally Posted by pjrage

Excellent point.. I did kind of think of that, but I didn't really put two and two together that it was different from regular dulling / rounding the edge. For my next test I was kind of planning on trying to cut some carpet or something to simulate cutting a ton of hair and try to dull it that way. Any ideas?

It's going to be your most consistent medium.