Thread: Stropping is King

Originally Posted by Joe Lerch

I want one change. Assuming we have one strop that satisfies the experiment, I will reimburse Scott and would like to have it to experiment with. That was one of the motivations for my proposing an experiment. If one did and one didn't, that could be very telling, and we might want to keep them for further experimentation.

Whoa boy!! Ummm, you and ilija proposed this "experiment." Now are you expecting me to fund your party??

Originally Posted by PapaBull

I can state for a fact that stropping does improve edge sharpeness even after honing. I've been sharpening stuff for year and for some years I religiously stropped my knives after honing to attain a hair cutting edge on them - one that they DIDN'T have after honing. But I'll also say that it took a LOT of time (hours) and manyh, many strokes (hundreds at least) to see that improvement

I've seen this with razors as well. I've had it happen a few times where a blade just wasn't getting quite there on the hone, and before I put it away till the next time I stropped it to get the last bit of water off the edge and lo and behold it starts popping hairs. But I've just assumed that there was some swarf nagnetically stuck to the fin that was interfering with the hair test.

As for the current discussion about a new strop and known razor hone, I think this is a good idea, and should not be construed as insulting at all. We've got an observation:

stropping can extend keep a razor sharp for up to a year

and a set of competing hypotheses to explain this observation:

(a) Scott has mad stropping skillz
(b) Scott's strop has mad honing skillz
(c) Scott has a different definition of sharp.

The proposed experiment should determine which of these hypothoses are false. I would amend the proposal to include Scott sending out his razor to Lynn for an initial evaluation, so Lynn has a baseline for Scott's definition of "shaving sharp" when the razor comes back to him at the end of the experiment - if the spectrum of "shaving sharp" razors I've gotten from members is any indication this is a much looser term than anyone would believe.

Originally Posted by honedright

And Joe, maybe you would send me one of your razors and (now this might sound gross) some of your scalp hairs (I promise I won't make a voodoo doll with them) so that we can see if I can't just get your razor to pass the HHT with your hair. You claim you can't do it. Want to see if I can?

Are you game?

Scott

OK. I've been able to pass the test with borrowed hairs or hairs from a brush. Unfortunately, my wife is even fairer than me and has thinner hair. All you need is samples of my hair (I can't spare a lot). I'll be satisfied if you can get any razor to pass the HHT with it. No voodoo dolls!

Send me a PM telling me where to send it.

Originally Posted by PuFFaH

I tried to make this point earlier in the thread, but it fell on deaf ears due to no scientific proof. I think that prolonged stropping will eventualy set the edge bevel to a tear shape that imo is stronger and thus longer lasting. You just have to get to this point to start with.

It didn't fall on deaf ears. The same thing happens when you use an abrasive hanging strop, which several of us have. The edge is stronger, but not orders of magnitude stronger.

Originally Posted by honedright

Whoa boy!! Ummm, you and ilija proposed this "experiment." Now are you expecting me to fund your party??

My original challenge was to you on one of Tony's strops. I would take your word on everything. If the strop passes I reimburse you and keep it, if not you keep it. Now, we've become a little more scientific, but I don't think we need to buy anything new other than a strop.

I don't know what Ilija has in mind, but why should we buy everything new when all we care about is one strop? If you used one of your razors and didn't give it away at the end, we would still have the same bet. Where did 2 razors and 2 strops come from?

[quote=mparker762;75398]

I've had it happen a few times where a blade just wasn't getting quite there on the hone, and before I put it away till the next time I stropped it to get the last bit of water off the edge and lo and behold it starts popping hairs. But I've just assumed that there was some swarf nagnetically stuck to the fin that was interfering with the hair test.

I don't think this is the same point. You had a razor with trapped moisture or swarf that made it seem duller. All you did was force out the contamination to restore the edge to its original condition. It's not a case where stropping actually increased sharpness ro you were able to do it plain eather only.

Originally Posted by honedright

Whoa boy!! Ummm, you and ilija proposed this "experiment." Now are you expecting me to fund your party??

No. I was thinking of taking up a collection, but first we have to agree on final parameters and then find a honemeister willing to hone the blades. Once the experiment is over, the strops and the razors get donated for the next SRP giveaway.

[quote=mparker762;75398]
Quote:
I've had it happen a few times where a blade just wasn't getting quite there on the hone, and before I put it away till the next time I stropped it to get the last bit of water off the edge and lo and behold it starts popping hairs. But I've just assumed that there was some swarf nagnetically stuck to the fin that was interfering with the hair test.


[QUOTE=Joe Lerch;75415]

Originally Posted by mparker762

I don't think this is the same point. You had a razor with trapped moisture or swarf that made it seem duller. All you did was force out the contamination to restore the edge to its original condition. It's not a case where stropping actually increased sharpness ro you were able to do it plain eather only.

I read that as; He was not passing the tests after honing (wet thumb nail etc), so he would try again later but before putting the razor away he would strop it to remove the moisture from the cutting edge . This he found made what appeared a dull razor into a sharp razor.
The assumption that swarf was stuck to the edge was his granted, but not fact. He just assumed that was a possible cause. In point of fact, it did increase sharpness, he said as much. He would have to be unlucky to hit the spot on the whole of a razors edge that had a bit of swarf on it.
I offer the opinion that the razor was holding a wire edge and the stropping removed it. I would not hold this to be the reason just a possiblity. This was removed and polished by the stropping IMO.
mparker..please clarify!

PuFF

This has only happened a few times. I don't do the thumbnail test after I leave the 4k. And I generally don't do the thumb test once the blade starts getting close. And in my experience wire edges pop hairs incredibly well -- actually "popping" hairs is a red flag for me.

I generally strop the razor on a paper towel before I try any hair test to get rid of the water and swarf. I've always assumed that the leather stropping *really* got rid of any metal swarf that was stuck to the blade (martensite is magnetic).

Also, my hand american strop is getting darker on the side I'm using every day. *Something* is coming off the razors onto that strop.

Great thread.

I know, just for clarification that stropping gets a razor sharper, but that wasn't the context of this thread. I also know that some guys apparenlty think that stropping will sharpen a razor, for 6 months to a year and then suddenly, inexplicably, stop and need to be honed. I also know that we are about to jump into another experiment, about as far away from controlled as imaginable.

I also know that we will either prove that Scott can strop for a year with different equipment or he can't. Either way, the rest of us are no better off, except that (a year later) he still won't be able to find words that describe what he does.

I think it would make more sense to get the same materials; hone, strop, and razor (note the odd list of specific equipment he uses). Then have Scott explain what he does differently from what we do, while we try variances.

I'm going to work on getting the same type of equipment. I think I can learn to experiment to achieve better results (anything over 10 is better for me).

Should I look in again in 6 months to a year . . . or will Scott just say he was/wasn't able to replicate his success and can't quite describe what he does (again)?

How am I any different, except a year older.